[thunderkat59]

I try to be objective. I had a lot of problems in Vermont but I still am very fond of it and would love to go back and spend time or even retire there. Thats why I come back to this forum occasionally just to read about it. I can only opine that its a pretty extreme change from most places in the USA, and there is a very real possibility that difference is too much for some people to overcome. People just asking questions in these forums might not be able to grasp the hugeness of those 'differences' til they get to VT and spend time there. I mean, its not like the averge CD forum inquiry, "I live in Jersey now, will I be OK in Delaware?" situation . . . The reality usually turns out to be very different than the image, going in.
I just look at content. If its reasonable and well written, there is a chance there is a legitimate issue that the post addresses. I wouldnt want this forum to change into the Florida forum where the militia of regulars mugs anybody whose opinion isnt all rainbows and happy unicorns spreading magical pixie dust everywhere

[Cthulhuu]

Vermont has sadly changed for the worse, it is not the state I remember growing up....[/quote]

I feel the same way about San Francisco. In the 70s when I was a teenager I loved living in San Francisco and it has gone so down hill. When I was a preteen, I could go around the city by myself, because Kevin Collins, had not yet been kidnapped. When Kevin Collins was kidnapped, they stopped allow kids to go around by themselves. I used to have so much fun going like on the cable cars and around the city on weekends by myself or with friends. But, now it's all changed, it is so crowded and of course, I am bored with everything to do here. But, this is still a great place to come visit. However, it is not so good for the retired. Just recently an old lady was on the muni metro and teenage girls punched her in the face and stole two purses she was carrying and they got the whole thing on video.

[Cthulhuu]

I wouldn't want this forum to change into the Florida forum where the militia of regulars mugs anybody whose opinion isn't all rainbows and happy unicorns spreading magical pixie dust everywhere [/quote]

I guess those people who live in Florida want people to move there? Maybe Vermonters don't want people to move there? I like to use the site best place because you can look up city by city, but there are some cities and towns in Vermont with no comments on them. Colchester and Essex, actually Essex has one positive comment about vacationing there. Chester, Woodstock or Manchester have no comments.

It is true one should see if the post has something useful to say even if it is negative. But, it is very frustrating because often they don't.

I have not really seriously considered Florida because of the hurricanes. And it is is too hot all the time. I am not into the beach lifestyle. Walking in sand hurts my knee which hurts often, but sand just gives me horrible knee pain.

Rutland seems like it is the central CA of Vermont. Sort of like Bakersfield CA. People live there because it is cheaper then the rest of CA, but they end up on drugs because they are bored and broke and then maybe start to sell drugs. Drugs don't pay for taxes, so the city goes bankrupt as hardily no one is working and no one is buying consumer goods, but instead just drugs and cell phone. Stockton did go bankrupt and there is Fresno to consider, just nothing there to do and no beauty of nature either. If I had time I would go to Rutland to see how it compares to central CA.

[GregW]

I grew up in upstate New York and now live in New Hampshire. I like Vermont and would move there after I retire except it would be moving to the same climate with the same COl. I can stay as wet, cold and broke in NH as VT so why move?

[thunderkat59]

Originally Posted by Cthulhuu

I have not really seriously considered Florida because of the hurricanes. And it is is too hot all the time. I am not into the beach lifestyle. Walking in sand hurts my knee which hurts often, but sand just gives me horrible knee pain.

Rutland seems like it is the central CA of Vermont. Sort of like Bakersfield CA. People live there because it is cheaper then the rest of CA, but they end up on drugs because they are bored and broke and then maybe start to sell drugs. Drugs don't pay for taxes, so the city goes bankrupt as hardily no one is working and no one is buying consumer goods, but instead just drugs and cell phone. Stockton did go bankrupt and there is Fresno to consider, just nothing there to do and no beauty of nature either. If I had time I would go to Rutland to see how it compares to central CA.

I lived in Rutland and South Florida. Your summation in this post is pretty close for not having lived in either place
While both were not desirable living situations -- and I try to find good in the many places I have lived in my life -- if I never see or hear of Florida again, Id be OK with that.
If you do visit Rutland, look in towns outside or Rutland, too, like Proctor or Rochester, etc . . . A lot to like if you can make it financially.

[Cthulhuu]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

I think you would be better off finding a state nearer to where you are now. If you are a city person (San Francisco, wanting to visit NYC) why would you want to live in Vermont where it is mostly rural? Why would you want to live in mountains where travel is difficult? Why would you want to be trapped inside for six months of winter?

BTW, I do know a few people from my state (MA) who retired to VT--and left. One was from rural MA, spent years living and working around San Fran, and finally retired to that dream house in VT. Got totally bored and sick and tired of the upkeep on the house and the extremely high heating costs--had a hard time selling that house too. Finally sold it at a big loss and has never looked back.

I have time to decide for sure. I can't move for at least five years. I don't know how well I would adjust to being rural, but I may pick a city. I can see that being snowed in is very romantic, and I never got to experience that yet. I could rent for a while first also. I would like to try living with real seasons. San Francisco has awful weather all year. Most days are cold and windy, but there are a few days that are sunny here and there. But, I don't know how many, it seems like only a few times a month is the weather nice. If I was snowed in, I may end up hating it, and I don't think I could do a lot of house upkeep, so I was thinking maybe a condo type deal in an apartment building, so the heating would not be so much. The heat tends to escape from the walls. So, where did he end up moving, back to San Francisco? I mostly stay home with the internet, one is not really isolated from the world. I keep in touch with most people on the net. It is hard to go places in San Francisco due to parking and traffic and stressful crowding. If you want to go somewhere like even a museum, you have to make arrangements to take public transportation which can add hours to wasted to your trip. So, us natives only do things that are tourist like very rarely and then only if we are taking someone from out of town. I can't just say, oh I want to go to the Haight and park and just have a good time spontaneously. There are lots of homeless people I mean everywhere, here, because it is so mild in climate. They live in the park at night and you can't actually go to the park at night. It is legal to due to so, but if you verdure off the paths in the parks you will see the homeless encampments. the beach is always very cold windy and ocean beach is particular dirty. If you go in the water you will likely drown. I ask myself, why live in such a place unless I loved it and I was doing all these things that one would expect is the reason that one would live here and put up with the high prices.

I don't know if some other states will pass right to die. I tried to research that and I could not find any information. I may like living in New Jersey better as it closer to New York, but right to die means a lot to me. My father died of Alzheimer's. I did a lot of research on Alzheimer's and the right to die. If you get Alzheimer's you need to do it quickly because you will soon lose the ability to judge that you want to die. If was not living in a right to die state and I did come down with Alzheimer's would I be able to have enough energy and brain power to effect a move to Vermont at that time in which I was already having impairment? I don't think I would have enough time. Moving can take a year. You need to find the place and move your stuff and change residency. Alzheimer's is so horrible, they forgot just just their families, but themselves, even their own names are forgotten and the world is a very scary place living among strangers even if they are your own family. So, they get put in homes in which they end up tied down into the bed so they will not wander away. The staff is too busy to deal with them on an individual bases and I won't have any children to care for me, ad I don't have children. I will end up in some state run institution.

[Declan's Dad]

I'll try to explain why i don't like it.

1. It's very liberal. I'm conservative. This one is obvious.

2. There are no jobs. Decent paying jobs in Vermont are very hard to come by. The green laws have a negative impact on business and no one there seems to care.

3. It's pretentious. Yup it is. Everyone in Vermont is obsessed with the "aint we so quaint" image as if covered bridges and maple syrup were the pinnacle of humanity. It's not charming. Not when you can't find a job or can't afford to raise a family. It's annoying and pitiful.

4. It's boring and not because there are no major cities. I'm a NH resident. I like rural. But I also like practical. Where NH is rural and practical Vermont is rural and pretentious. NH has much more to offer in the course of your day to day life and also for leisure. We have a coastline, nicer lakes, better mountains, nicer cities, more variety. If you've seen one covered bridge and one gift shop selling made in Vermont trinkets and maple syrup then you've seen them all.

[thunderkat59]

Originally Posted by Declan's Dad

It seems like any time I say something negative about Vermont my post gets removed but I'll try to explain why i don't like it.

1. It's very liberal. I'm conservative. This one is obvious.

2. There are no jobs. Decent paying jobs in Vermont are very hard to come by. The green laws have a negative impact on business and no one there seems to care.

3. It's pretentious. Yup it is. Everyone in Vermont is obsessed with the "aint we so quaint" image as if covered bridges and maple syrup were the pinnacle of humanity. It's not charming. Not when you can't find a job or can't afford to raise a family. It's annoying and pitiful.

4. It's boring and not because there are no major cities. I'm a NH resident. I like rural. But I also like practical. Where NH is rural and practical Vermont is rural and pretentious. NH has much more to offer in the course of your day to day life and also for leisure. We have a coastline, nicer lakes, better mountains, nicer cities, more variety. If you've seen one covered bridge and one gift shop selling made in Vermont trinkets and maple syrup then you've seen them all.

Another reason why regardless of what one reads in CD posts, visit many times before relocating.
Except for the 'no major city' part, my experience living in Vermont was exactly opposite of this item for item

[FrugalYankee]

Originally Posted by Declan's Dad

I'll try to explain why i don't like it.

1. It's very liberal. I'm conservative. This one is obvious.

Only where the state has been taken over by outsiders. That should also be obvious.

Originally Posted by Declan's Dad

2. There are no jobs. Decent paying jobs in Vermont are very hard to come by. The green laws have a negative impact on business and no one there seems to care.

Agree more or less. There are jobs for healthcare and social workers. The pay in VT will not allow you to maintain a standard of living that does not involve getting a second job or driving an old clunker until it falls out from under you. Poverty is growing and the middle class is disappearing.

Originally Posted by Declan's Dad

3. It's pretentious. Yup it is. Everyone in Vermont is obsessed with the "aint we so quaint" image as if covered bridges and maple syrup were the pinnacle of humanity. It's not charming. Not when you can't find a job or can't afford to raise a family. It's annoying and pitiful.

Everyone? Nope, not even close. You need to get out of Woodstock and Manchester. And frankly that kind of attitude is what turned me off to Sunapee NH (which used to be a nice town but is now at least as pretentious as anything in VT).

Originally Posted by Declan's Dad

4. It's boring and not because there are no major cities. I'm a NH resident. I like rural. But I also like practical. Where NH is rural and practical Vermont is rural and pretentious. NH has much more to offer in the course of your day to day life and also for leisure. We have a coastline, nicer lakes, better mountains, nicer cities, more variety. If you've seen one covered bridge and one gift shop selling made in Vermont trinkets and maple syrup then you've seen them all.

What are you talking about in NH? Storyland? The outlet malls in Tilton? And what does NH offer for day-to-day life? The local recycling center? The fact that you have to hike on down to your town clerk office in person to pay your vehicle tax before you can get your tags renewed? Come on there is a lot to like in NH and overall I'd rather live in NH than in VT but this is the pot calling the kettle black.

[ARPARP]

You want to move to a state so you can legally kill yourself if you get sick? That's probably the most unique criteria I ever heard of in choosing a state.