[vter]

Sean, you know I love you , but can't make it on $100K? Seriously? We pull in a little less than that and don't have any problems making ends meet. But then again, we live within our means, which I think a lot of people don't. Like I've said before, we bought a small house (could have afforded more, but didnt feel the need for a big house), live frugally (buy stuff a yard sales, etc), and we've been able to save a lot of money and we continue to do so! I just don't understand how some people say they can't afford to live here on certain salaries. I guess maybe we're just super conservative with our money. I know quite a few people pulling in WAY less than 100K and they do allright for themselves. You know us Yankees...we live frugally and within our means, well most of us anyway

[OhBeeHave]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Every person has a lifestyle (at least in their minds) which they would like to live. The reality is what sort of lifestyle does one choose to live and whether the preferred area can support that lifestyle.

Family of 4:

$100K in Chester/Andover is more than doable between housing cost, taxes, utilities, fuel, decent used car and that nagging desire to eat and wear clothing.

$100K in Stony Brook, NY is a struggle to have the aforementioned. It is doable, but sacrifices must be made.

I like to live by the adage, "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." Somewhere inside this NYer is a frugal Yankee, screaming to get out.

[flu189]

When we actually sit down and break down family incomes in Vermont, $100K and above is a small percentage of total family wages earned in this state. $45k to 70k is actually the majority. So, for those that do make six figures and even better, wonderful, but remember that the majority do not. Also, with the current deteriorating economic situation and the policies that exist here, those that make make decent "taxable" salaries or yields from investments can be assured that the bite will get even deeper. If energy and food costs, plus taxes continue to increase there are going to be quite a few solid middle class families, especially with kids, that for the first time will be facing a situation that never existed before.

[flu189]

For some this may be interesting. The NY Times yesterday (14 Jun) had in the opinion section a columnist, Bob Herbert, pen a piece "Letters from Vermont." It mostly dealt with excerpts of letters to Sen Bernie Sanders from his constituents articulating their plight. If in fact the substance of the letters can be deemed to be true for the most part then Bernie's computer and phones will blow up this coming winter. Heck, I wrote him a while ago regarding a veterans issue since he likes to chat up the PR side with support for vets. Never even got an acknowledgement back, even from a staffer that they would look into it.

[OhBeeHave]

Here's a link to the op column you've written about.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/op...14herbert.html

My husband wonders why I keep cutting back on things now, when things still seem good. I have to ask him to read that column to get a better understanding of where my mindset is at. The man who sold everything off, the people who burned furniture to stay warm, I can't begin to imagine the depths of dispair they are experiencing. I hope never to know.

Things are looking grim and I can't see blue skies on the horizon anytime soon.

[flu189]

I think it is absolutely horrible when someone feels compelled to sell off family heirlooms in order to make ends meet. Granted it is tough now, and it may get even tougher. I really feel concern for folks on fixed incomes, especially those that faithfully did the supposed right thing by foregoing purchases on certain personal items or taking that vacation in order to rather put money into a retirement fund just to see it wither away combined with rising costs for staples now. I surely hope that folks will take an active interest when it comes to our local taxes and really scrutinize what is necessary and what is excessive. I imagine if several hundred folks a day were to physically make their presence and thoughts known directly in Montpelier (or any other govt capitol for that matter where spending is questionable) then we actually might see results. Unfortunately, letters and phone calls do little. Just think, have you ever had an issue with a business that would blow you off and you only got results by showing up in person and making eye to eye contact which then got results.

[mustmove]

I'm optimistic about the economy turning for the better soon. But not in VT. Somewhere around here I posted a link to a NYT article about VT from 25 years ago and the same stuff was being said(by some of the same people) as now. VT has isolated itself from the fortunes of the world, yippee we buy local and stay poor. I was going through a stack of VT Life from the 70's recently more of the same VT was going to be the center of alternative energy and back to the earth fortunes would be made here, etc etc. I expect things to get better elsewhere(they aren't as bad as the press implies) but VT is and will remain stuck in high tax, high regulation, beautiful, scenic, poverty.

[seanpecor]

Vermont needs a major political shakeup; maybe the economic recession and fuel costs will be a good catalyst. Some good 'ol pro-business Democrats could really propel Vermont forward.

If I was still in Vermont and I was dictator for a day I would order the immediate development of a large engineering college. Engineering colleges create jobs. Liberal arts colleges, not so much.

With respect to the environment, Vermont can take it a bit far in some respects while being quite conservative in others. For example, my brother in-law bought a 2/3rd acre parcel recently in Middlebury town limits. It has a stretch of "wetland" within the parcel. Really nothing more than a dimple in the corner. He is forbidden to plant a tree there, or do anything. Even his ability to mow it is limited. That's insane. On the other hand, when it comes to alternative water treatment systems, Vermont is very conservative. They got rid of the 10 acre loophole and have been dragging their feet for years with alternative systems, some of which are very environmentally friendly. By contrast, down here in Southwest Virginia, a friend of mine in rural Franklin County built a Yurt, implemented a composting toilet, and then got easy approval for a gray water system. I'm not so sure it would have been that easy to do in Vermont, even though Virginia is not thought of as a "green" state while Vermont is thought to be very environmentally progressive.

Sean

[mustmove]

If you think wetlands are bad, wait until the fallout from the vernal pool surveying.

[picante]

I find it interesting that many of the folks who are posting negative thoughts on VT don't live here but live in VA, FL, etc, They seem to want to keep a connection to VT at least through this forum. That in itself says something.

I read someone elses post saying they can't afford to buy but are paying $1750 in rent and utilities! There are any number of homes you could by in the Burlington area that would be cheaper, even including your property taxes. That's without including the tax advantages of owning.

Like Vter, most folks I know have no complaints about living in VT. If you don't like living here, that's fine, its not for everyone. The individual from down south didn't like the lack of strong Christian culture or the liberal attitutes. I appreciate both, as do the people I know.

You don't like VT, you don't like it. But I have problems with folks telling others not to move here because of the lack of economic opportunity. I help people relocate to the Burlington area all the time and all can afford it, all can afford it on less than $100K/yr.

VT has one of the lowest forclosure rates in the country. As much as the housing market might be hurting, more homeowners are more secure here than in other states.