[NYLIER]

Originally Posted by Dport7674

Make a list of places you'd choose to live in. Now how many of those places are really that much cheaper than where you're at now?

I keep looking at the property taxes in Delaware and the Carolinas and they are much cheaper than here. Delaware seems to be a nice state but I won't know the drawbacks until I go down there and check it out.

[NYLIER]

Originally Posted by Riley.

I found this but, full disclosure, I didn't quite understand it the first read through. I'd have to read it a few times and maybe I would understand it better. As usual, alot of what this legislature does (or the documents they produce) doesn't make sense.


https://ljfo.vermont.gov/assets/Meet...ld_statute.pdf

I went back on the Leg. website and found more depressing news. I was under the impression by reading the news articles that our governor was against the property tax hike but it seems he already signed off on it back in June. He didn't sign the bill to give the assembly more money but stated that we are looking at $1200. a year more, not counting the property and income tax hikes!! He also stated that with the driver and vehicle registration hikes, we are now paying the highest in the nation again.

If it isn't enough that most of our taxes are paying for the educator's hefty salaries, we are also paying for the teacher's licenses until 2029. You know, because they have it so hard financially.

When reading further, we are paying for total college loan forgiveness (transportation, housing, meals, etc.) for qualifying occupations. So they went behind the people's backs and got us to foot the expenses for these students anyway.

The governor also wants the Legislators to come up with a bill so the entire state will allow non citizens to be able to vote in local elections. You know where that's headed.

Maybe if this gov't would stop handing money out like it grows on trees and stop giving $7T yearly raises to people working in the education system, we could enjoy the fruits of our labor. Unfortunately, it is just not going to happen in this state.

[Riley.]

Found this surfing around this morning.

https://vtdigger.org/2023/05/13/lawm...HPvg3qX_eeZ39k

In pertinent part:
A mutiny is underway in the Vermont House, where 17 Democrats and Progressives voted against the budget on Friday. The measure still passed by a vote of 90 to 53. But that vote tally could spell trouble for Democratic leadership in June, when they will likely need to override a gubernatorial veto of the budget. If enough of Friday’s ‘nay’ votes don’t flip, Democrats won’t have the two-thirds majority required.

I'd love to see a protest at the Statehouse over this budget. Think it will happen?

[arctichomesteader]

The legislators feel to secure in their positions to even pay attention to a protest that doesn't agree with their views.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

The legislators feel to secure in their positions to even pay attention to a protest that doesn't agree with their views.

Well, not that this would happen, but if a couple of hundred people showed up, those dem/progressives who are not comfortable with the tax hike might be able to convince others to override the vote (is that possible?).
I know they are firmly entrenched in their views, but damn, are they ever going to do anything that helps the average taxpayer? They just don't seem like that 'smart' of a bunch when all they know how to do is increase a tax or cost somewhere.

[NYLIER]

Originally Posted by Riley.

Well, not that this would happen, but if a couple of hundred people showed up, those dem/progressives who are not comfortable with the tax hike might be able to convince others to override the vote (is that possible?).
I know they are firmly entrenched in their views, but damn, are they ever going to do anything that helps the average taxpayer? They just don't seem like that 'smart' of a bunch when all they know how to do is increase a tax or cost somewhere.

We will see how smart our school district taxpayers are when they vote for the school budgets. I hope I'm not surrounded by a majority of ignoramuses. Anyone that believes this is "for the children" haven't been doing their research.

[Summerz88]

We have been following our select board online and on YouTube, it’s been a learning experience for sure, would rather know what’s going on.
Scary as it is sometimes………

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by NYLIER

We will see how smart our school district taxpayers are when they vote for the school budgets. I hope I'm not surrounded by a majority of ignoramuses. Anyone that believes this is "for the children" haven't been doing their research.

I am not hopeful but since we got our little 'handout' indicating there is a 27% increase in the education funding portion of our taxes, maybe more than 100 people will show up (and we have to show up to an in person meeting to cast a vote).

They even try to pass the budget on a voice vote but I always stand up and request a paper vote (I have to have 5 or 6 other people stand up in agreement with me). The 'funny' part is that the little pieces of paper passed out are scraps torn off a larger sheet by the school board and then counted by four or five people on the dais is front of the room.

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by Riley.

I am not hopeful but since we got our little 'handout' indicating there is a 27% increase in the education funding portion of our taxes, maybe more than 100 people will show up (and we have to show up to an in person meeting to cast a vote).

They even try to pass the budget on a voice vote but I always stand up and request a paper vote (I have to have 5 or 6 other people stand up in agreement with me). The 'funny' part is that the little pieces of paper passed out are scraps torn off a larger sheet by the school board and then counted by four or five people on the dais is front of the room.

The (few remaining) hairs on my back are rising.

First, the concept of town meeting is - if you don't give a rat's ... and don't show up, you have no grounds for moaning.

Second, in town meeting you have to have the courage to publicly literally stand by your convictions.

Third, in the Vermont I grew up in, anyone who DARED to lie about the ballots they were counting would immediately be run out of town on a rail - IF lucky. Those little strips can easily be marked when you get them so you know when yours is being read out - even if other people don't know.

Direct democracy is about as good as it gets, messy as it is. I have watched a town troublemaker have their say, sit down, and life go on. Yeah, we had to listen for a few minutes. Fine by me.

When taxes are about to go up as much as is proposed, the people who don't come out are blooming idiots. That is a blessing, because only informed people will then vote.

Open commentary (if not debate) at town meeting is a huge way of building community and understanding what goes on publicly and behind the scenes.

[Riley.]

Random comments re Harry's post:

We're lucky to get 100 people to show up at town meeting. IIRC at last count we have approximately 1800 voters. I've asked on FB this morning for the count. I'm going to write an article about our town meeting and see if anyone publishes it.

People will not or cannot take the day off or part of the day off to attend town meeting, even though the 'state' says your employer has to give you the day off (but they don't have to pay you unless you take personal time, as I mentioned)- It's usually a 6-hour affair with lunch in the middle. There are never many issues with the 'town' part of the budget and vote. The select board is very judicious about taxpayer $$ because they have primary control, unlike the school board which is driven by the state. It is my opinion that there is no will to vote down the school budget because people don't want to 'insult' (or whatever word one may use) the school board's efforts. This year may be different as across VT the prediction is that
school budgets will fail due to the legislative machinations that have caused this pretty large increase. For me, to vote them down is the only way to get Montpelier's attention.

The 'tiny pieces of paper ballots' for the school budget are not counted out loud in front. They are separated into yays and nays by the 4 or 5 people on the dais and the count announced. I am still shocked that this is the way they conduct that vote. I personally believe a 2nd, affirming count should be done, but that is not a popular opinion, as you can imagine.

While I understand that direct democracy has the potential to be good, in theory, that has not been my observation or experience in the 20 yrs I've been here. Since we have the option to change a line item from the floor (and this is touted as the reason for having an in-person meeting and vote), the logical conclusion would be we'd be permitted a robust discussion on any particular item. Not so. There is always one person in particular who moves to shut down discussion and with a second, there it goes.

'Building community' is not what we have here, frankly. I have to laugh at that notion. I can't even get into this discussion here. And I have stood up, every single year, to share my thoughts, make a statement, whatever you want to call it. Some appreciate my candor, others look at me like I have three heads.

As a friend on this forum has said, it's exhausting going through this every year. I think participation would be easier if we had an info meeting (separately) and then an Australian ballot vote on meeting day. A friend and I tried with that initiative several years back and it failed. but hey, at least we tried.