[MrDee12345]

I guess my question would be this:

If you look at the data in the link provided below, you'll see that Vermont has one of the highest tax burdens of any state in the country. It's rate is 4th in the nation (excluding DC), while Mass and NH are significantly lower (NH is one of the lowest in the country and Mass is middle of the road). Do the extra taxes that Vermonters pay result in overall better services than NH, MA or the rest of the country?

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...e-lowest-taxes

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by MrDee12345

I guess my question would be this:

If you look at the data in the link provided below, you'll see that Vermont has one of the highest tax burdens of any state in the country. It's rate is 4th in the nation (excluding DC), while Mass and NH are lower (NH is one of the lowest in the country and Mass is middle of the road). Do the extra taxes that Vermonters pay result in overall better services than NH, MA or the rest of the country?

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...e-lowest-taxes

Vermont always rates as one of the highest tax burdens. And no, I don't believe we have better services overall than anywhere else.

There's been a noticeable difference, for me, in medical care delivery in my neck of the woods. Short staffed, longer waits for appointments (when I make an appointment), but that's happening everywhere else in the country, too. I was in the waiting room for an hour for a doctor's appointment last week. That was a first for me, in 20 yrs. Usually I am in and out in less than an hour.

[Boston_Burbs]

Having lived in VT almost 4 years, making +/- $140k, I still don't understand those who complain about high taxes. I pay about half the income tax I paid in MA ($2,800) and about the same property tax ($5,000). Heck, I still got a $1,000 rebate on my property taxes due to the income adjustment. Mind you my wife does not work and we max out my 401k, Spousal IRA, and HSA so it brings the income down, along with having two dependents. But still, I just don't see it unless you are comparing to other parts of the country not in New England.

[Arktikos]

Originally Posted by RobinWoods

Thank you all for the candid opinions. I ask, because I'm looking to move back north. I'm currently in the Southeast, originally from Canada but parents moved down here when I was a kid. I'm tired of the climate, and more and more tired of the general mentality here. I grew up in a very religious conservative home and area here, but the older I get and the more I think about things, the less I agree with much of it.

I looked in several of the places Champ mentioned, and my issues are the same as his with them. Either too populated, or too expensive. I had some siblings that lived in Montana, and me and my wife made a short trip out there once. It's beautiful, but has become priced way out of my range now, unless it's miles away from anything remotely like amenities. Same for Idaho. Washington, Oregon, and southern Alaska are other options we have thought about. Also even considering a move back to Canada, I have family in Ontario still.

Having said, the three NE states of VT, NH and ME are currently top of the list. I'm a very outdoors loving person, like to hike, camp, swim etc. My wife is partially disabled, but very crafty and artistic, and can do anything in the fiber arts world. Looking for somewhere that would have a good balance of being country enough to satisfy me and outdoorness and my like of privacy and quiet, with being close enough to a community that her artistic work could thrive in. We also enjoy good food of all types at non-chain restaurants.

Moving from here to almost anywhere that we would seem to like, is going to cost more in taxes and cost of living. So it's not a question of what's cheaper, it's a question of where will I get the most enjoyment of life for it.

Sorry if that's a bit of a ramble. If anything is unclear let me know and I'll try to elaborate more.

My daughter has remained in the NH/Vermont area after graduating from Dartmouth. In my visits over the past few years I've really come to appreciate this area. It's about the only place I could imagine living in the lower 48 states.

However, it suffers from a couple problems Alaska also does-a lack of workers and a very unfavorable demographic mix with a large percentage of older people.

Regarding your mention of southern Alaska, be advised that it's an extremely cloudy and wet environment. Not a problem here because I've become accustomed to it. This doesn't prevent me from recognizing that Vermont has a superior climate. The only real negative in comparison to Alaska is that it can get hot during the summer.

[Boston_Burbs]

Originally Posted by Arktikos

My daughter has remained in the NH/Vermont area after graduating from Dartmouth. In my visits over the past few years I've really come to appreciate this area. It's about the only place I could imagine living in the lower 48 states.

However, it suffers from a couple problems Alaska also does-a lack of workers and a very unfavorable demographic mix with a large percentage of older people.

Regarding your mention of southern Alaska, be advised that it's an extremely cloudy and wet environment. Not a problem here because I've become accustomed to it. This doesn't prevent me from recognizing that Vermont has a superior climate. The only real negative in comparison to Alaska is that it can get hot during the summer.

The Upper Valley is a pretty great place. Probably the best rural employment center is New England due to people like your Daughter sticking around after college. Dartmouth Alumns bring so much to the area, including the patents. Most of the major employers are the college, hospital, and Dartmouth spinoff companies.

When I moved out of Boston we choose between Western, MA, Mid Coast Maine, and the Upper Valley. Glad we chose the UV because it continues to impress me.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Boston_Burbs

Having lived in VT almost 4 years, making +/- $140k, I still don't understand those who complain about high taxes. I pay about half the income tax I paid in MA ($2,800) and about the same property tax ($5,000). Heck, I still got a $1,000 rebate on my property taxes due to the income adjustment. Mind you my wife does not work and we max out my 401k, Spousal IRA, and HSA so it brings the income down, along with having two dependents. But still, I just don't see it unless you are comparing to other parts of the country not in New England.

If your income was on the same level as most of my neighbors in the NEK, you'd feel differently. Those property taxes hit you a lot harder. And on top of that, the lack of good road maintenance combined with longer commutes to work is a hidden tax that is also hitting people very hard right now given the price of vehicles. Pretty soon we'll be dealing with the carbon tax based on a bill passed this year (fuel dealers will pass along their costs). That will make things worse. Electric heat pumps, which the state is pushing, are a joke in a place that gets to 30 below every winter.

[Arktikos]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

.. Electric heat pumps, which the state is pushing, are a joke in a place that gets to 30 below every winter.

They are incredibly efficient, definitely the way to go for heating. How often does it get that cold? I'm guessing not very. The new pumps are good down to about minus 20.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by Boston_Burbs

Having lived in VT almost 4 years, making +/- $140k, I still don't understand those who complain about high taxes. I pay about half the income tax I paid in MA ($2,800) and about the same property tax ($5,000). Heck, I still got a $1,000 rebate on my property taxes due to the income adjustment. Mind you my wife does not work and we max out my 401k, Spousal IRA, and HSA so it brings the income down, along with having two dependents. But still, I just don't see it unless you are comparing to other parts of the country not in New England.

You're right. I think some people just love to complain. Some feel that seniors should get a break like other states offer, that they shouldn't have to pay taxes for education when they don't have kids in school, etc, etc, etc. or worse, they are retired with only social security to support themselves.
We are retired but have pensions and savings and 401s. Not rich but we get by pretty well. That said, every cent is taxed and as education costs rise, the little break we get on education tax based on income will decrease. Social security is taxed, too.
My auto and homeowners insurance are inexpensive compared to other states and can get good craft beer and a decent meal w/out breaking the bank. Of course, things have been getting more expensive.
Friends in CA are paying almost $6/gal for gas and their property taxes are higher, too.
Fuel costs are a real issue and we shall see what happens.

[MrDee12345]

Originally Posted by Boston_Burbs

Having lived in VT almost 4 years, making +/- $140k, I still don't understand those who complain about high taxes. I pay about half the income tax I paid in MA ($2,800) and about the same property tax ($5,000). Heck, I still got a $1,000 rebate on my property taxes due to the income adjustment. Mind you my wife does not work and we max out my 401k, Spousal IRA, and HSA so it brings the income down, along with having two dependents. But still, I just don't see it unless you are comparing to other parts of the country not in New England.

I don't understand how you pay less in taxes in Vermont. According to the link I've posted below, your income tax bracket in VT means you should be taxed at 7.6%.

In Mass, you'd only be taxed at 5%

How are you paying less?

https://smartasset.com/taxes/vermont...20to%208.75%25.

[MrDee12345]

Originally Posted by Riley.

Vermont always rates as one of the highest tax burdens. And no, I don't believe we have better services overall than anywhere else.

There's been a noticeable difference, for me, in medical care delivery in my neck of the woods. Short staffed, longer waits for appointments (when I make an appointment), but that's happening everywhere else in the country, too. I was in the waiting room for an hour for a doctor's appointment last week. That was a first for me, in 20 yrs. Usually I am in and out in less than an hour.

What about other things like social safety net, healthcare for the poor and other social programs?

Mass is notoriously generous with their welfare, unemployment and other services, but NH is considered to be pretty stingy in those categories.