Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
For what it's worth, I agree that NH has a better job selection than VT due to its greater development. (but there are also downsides to NH) A job in Lebanon is probably the ideal. Good community, kind of VT-ish in nature, and good local economy.
I am a native VT'r & a lot of what I read is very true. When I grew up in area of Brattleboro in late 50's to early 70's it was starting. Many people from the cities (flatlanders, NJ, NY, CT, MA, etc) were attracked to the beauty. Also VT did a large tourist business along with some farming left operating. There was not a great deal of industry in the state although Burlington had some major companies there. What happened is a lot of these folks decided to buy vacation/second homes. Then we attracted a lot that actually wanted to live in the state & many (I call them trust-fund babies) they were independantly wealthy & didn't need to work thus they fight industry. Then the liberal/artist types moved in & they also didn't want industry. A big problem now is the cost of living compared to wages. Just in the Brattleboro area many companies have moved out & service jobs that should be for teens are held by adults thus you now have more teens finding other ways to make money - drugs is a big one. I remember being young & there were few decent jobs in companies - if you were told to work Sat/Sun you did because u knew there were 25 people behind u just waiting for your job. Then industry started coming in . . . but the more of these non-natives that moved in the more that idea went out. They want to keep the state an undeveloped place. That is all well & good but you have to have industry & jobs (which can be controlled) or you have negative. Like check the binge drinking rate, drugs, young folks leaving the state, etc. Interestingly UVM is rated one of the best state universities in the country but ck how many graduates actually stay in VT.
Celebraties have moved in buying property & what little time they spend there how much do they really give to the communities. I will not say that about Whoppie as I know she is active in the Brattleboro area but others. I read something that said they move to VT because they are not bothered - VTers don't give a ___ who they are thus don't give them a lot of attention.
Yes the person that wrote about Burlington is right it is different in that one small area compared to the rest of the state.
If you go up north (in other areas not Burlington) I have talked with natives that refer to us living in the south as "those southern Vt's". Some will not be open/friendly unless you have roots in northern VT. Vt'rs were always a proud people (too proud at times), reserved until they really knew you but honest folk. It's sad to me in many ways. Although on the other hand it is really our own fault as natives. When the "others" started moving in & running for our government offices we should have also. I think it has always been though VT'rs are dumb - a bunch of hick farmers & we were intimidated by these so called educated folk so we let them take over our state. I left the state after graduating, went to college in a diff. state & lived all over U.S. I returned & saw things a whole lot differently. I experienced first hand the conflict between VT'rs & others and it was sad. Yes the education was very backwards I found out. I remember going to west coast in 20's & seeing a help wanted ad requesting a resume & I had no idea what that was! I returned a bit more enlightened and then saw how VT'rs actually refused to change & educate themselves out of stubborness? To be able to talk, dress & present themselves against these others. I was a Manager is companies in VT & I will say the others did present themselves in a professional manner but I said but the real hard, true, loyal workers were VT'rs its just too bad they . . . . .
Well that is my opinion & I now am considered a "flat-lander" because I live in MA. I could not afford to continue to live in VT. Well maybe but I would have been very poor. I do want to say I am as guilty myself. Instead of trying to do anything about what was happening I chose to leave. Who knows maybe some day soon I will return & get involved in representing the true natives??
The bottom line I would say - VT has now turned into a state for the independently weathy person. And I do not believe you will find % wise that many natives left in Brattleboro area unless they are elderly.
Now not to say there are not some great things in VT in the area of organic & artistic but I hopefully answered your question from personal experience.
I don't know where in NH you are from?? But yes over-all I believe the job situation is much better in NH. As far as education I believe Keene High School has much better ratings than Brattleboro Union High. So I think you have to be more specific in what areas you are talking about.
Love to read these debates. Makes me glad I left my "native" Vermont. I like to visit but, that is it. And as soon as my parents retire, they'll be relocating as well. I also have friends that are doing the same as soon as thier children finish school (divorced couple). We/they just cannot afford 5000+ a year in taxes on a ranch house.
Vermont is no longer what is was, and it will never go back. Sad but true.
A little late in replying but I totally agree. No matter what anyone says I don't believe the education in Vermont is that great. I went to school at Montpelier High School and if you lived her you would know that is one of the best schools in Vt. But now it's over run with drugs the same goes with Spaulding High School. I haven't heard anything bad about U:32 Union High School but I'm sure it's the same. I only graduated a few years ago from high school and I can tell you that I had a HORRIBLE education. The school systems now a days have these classes that the "bad kids" can take. It's a bunch of bull **** if you ask me. They go and put a few nails into a wall for four hours a day and they are considered to be in a "Contruction Major" class and given the same diplomoa as other people who work had taking normal classes. Now adays if you act up they throw you in these classes and let you glide right through school. It's bull ****. And I know this first hand because my boyfriends siblings all graduated in 2009 and they just saled through. It's bull and I would NEVER allow my child off that easy.
Simply put, taxing the top income earners at 9.5% (the highest in the country) is going to scare a lot of rich people away, many of whom might bring in their own businesses. Charging a more reasonable 5 or 6% would probably scare up more tax revenue over time, as Vermont could be drawing from a much larger, wealthy pie. Also, wealthy people more likely to spend money at local retailers. These two revenue sources should more than make up for any uptick in real estate prices.
This isn't voodoo economics... it's called being competitive with the other states.
For those that sincerely believe that raising taxes and fees on the so called affluent will be the way to go, in the first four months of 2009 in Vermont income tax revenue was down 33%. Considering in terms of gross income tax receipts a relatively small percentage pay the bulk in income taxes. The tolerance to keep paying in more and more into a cash siphon wears thin for everybody and with the investment losses we have experienced those with money and assets may just very well be even more sensitive to Vermont's schemes. I don't personally know anyone here in Vermont who is "affluent," but do have friends in other states who are. Some from current work and several from benefiting from investments made from years of working. They all agree that they will do whatever it takes to secure their incomes and assets for their futures from confiscatory taxation and these people represent a broad spectrum of political views. Montpelier knows they are treading in a minefield where by their policies they may just do more damage to potential sources of revenue.
Everyone knows the reasons, taxes, high energy cost to heat your home for eight months a year, rural living which results in longer driving distances to everything from jobs to shopping, car repairs from the rough winter roads, the list is long. The driver for most of this is the insatable government spending which has to be fed with ever higher taxes. Taxes on income, taxes on fuel to heat your house, gas for your car, electricity for your lights, cigarettes, licquor, meals, cars, sales tax, estate taxes, transfer taxes, you name it Vermont taxes it. A small rural state with half the population of NH yet the same number of state employes, some of the lowest student to teacher ratios in the country, too many school districts each supporting their own costly administration instead of consolidating and reducing. Vermont has been taken over by the out of state liberals who will push their agenda at the cost of every Vermonters income, it has become a state of people supporting a government rather than a government for the people. Until wholesale changes are made in Montpelier and a different breed of legislators is in place Vermont will continue to shed jobs and will end up a state consisting of government employes, teachers, and medical workers, the balance will be a poor, struggling population working in the tourism industry. Three month jobs at a ski area making $8/hour with no insurance, or in a restaurant or convenience store...oh yes there will always be those living off welfare and in subsidized housing. I'm one of the lucky ones I got out while I could still sell my house, 55 years in Vermont was enough, sad to say the Vermont I left was not the same one I was born into. Regretably it will only get worse in vermont over the next few years as the deficit is expected to become even greater, and even more money will have to be raised from taxes.
It can all be traced to the government. Between taxes and regulations, it keeps out many better paying jobs and the government takes substantial portions of what little people earn, both directly (income tax, property tax, etc.) and indirectly (taxes that get passed on to you by businesses). Now don't get me wrong, I don't want VT developed into another NYC or MA, but, it's gone too far in keeping jobs out and keeping people from even using their land in some cases to help (consider all the restrictions on logging). Another major issue is all the wealthy people who have and are moving in and driving real estate prices up (and with it, taxes). In large part these "flatlanders" as they're called brought in the politics that has created the government causing the problems...not to attack you Arel or others or anything, just pointing it out, the invasion of the state from the 60's on with left-leaning socialist and hippy types brought in most of the big government ideas that have pushed us into this position. Once farming basically collapsed years ago in the state it was doomed because nothing else would or will come in to replace that.
I did notice the state will be allowing some more maple tapping on state lands, which will help the maple industry, but, I think that's too little, too late...the long list of hiked taxes, no cutting back of regulations, etc., will just continue to destroy the economy.
Don't know NYC, but MA (I assume you're talking Boston metro) has great educational/employment/cultural opportunities that VT just doesn't have.
Sadly, VT is a place to retire and not much else. I sort of see it as a nursing home, like Florida.
I am a native VT'r & a lot of what I read is very true. When I grew up in area of Brattleboro in late 50's to early 70's it was starting. Many people from the cities (flatlanders, NJ, NY, CT, MA, etc) were attracked to the beauty. Also VT did a large tourist business along with some farming left operating. There was not a great deal of industry in the state although Burlington had some major companies there. What happened is a lot of these folks decided to buy vacation/second homes. Then we attracted a lot that actually wanted to live in the state & many (I call them trust-fund babies) they were independantly wealthy & didn't need to work thus they fight industry. Then the liberal/artist types moved in & they also didn't want industry. A big problem now is the cost of living compared to wages. Just in the Brattleboro area many companies have moved out & service jobs that should be for teens are held by adults thus you now have more teens finding other ways to make money - drugs is a big one. I remember being young & there were few decent jobs in companies - if you were told to work Sat/Sun you did because u knew there were 25 people behind u just waiting for your job. Then industry started coming in . . . but the more of these non-natives that moved in the more that idea went out. They want to keep the state an undeveloped place. That is all well & good but you have to have industry & jobs (which can be controlled) or you have negative. Like check the binge drinking rate, drugs, young folks leaving the state, etc. Interestingly UVM is rated one of the best state universities in the country but ck how many graduates actually stay in VT.
Celebraties have moved in buying property & what little time they spend there how much do they really give to the communities. I will not say that about Whoppie as I know she is active in the Brattleboro area but others. I read something that said they move to VT because they are not bothered - VTers don't give a ___ who they are thus don't give them a lot of attention.
Yes the person that wrote about Burlington is right it is different in that one small area compared to the rest of the state.
If you go up north (in other areas not Burlington) I have talked with natives that refer to us living in the south as "those southern Vt's". Some will not be open/friendly unless you have roots in northern VT. Vt'rs were always a proud people (too proud at times), reserved until they really knew you but honest folk. It's sad to me in many ways. Although on the other hand it is really our own fault as natives. When the "others" started moving in & running for our government offices we should have also. I think it has always been though VT'rs are dumb - a bunch of hick farmers & we were intimidated by these so called educated folk so we let them take over our state. I left the state after graduating, went to college in a diff. state & lived all over U.S. I returned & saw things a whole lot differently. I experienced first hand the conflict between VT'rs & others and it was sad. Yes the education was very backwards I found out. I remember going to west coast in 20's & seeing a help wanted ad requesting a resume & I had no idea what that was! I returned a bit more enlightened and then saw how VT'rs actually refused to change & educate themselves out of stubborness? To be able to talk, dress & present themselves against these others. I was a Manager is companies in VT & I will say the others did present themselves in a professional manner but I said but the real hard, true, loyal workers were VT'rs its just too bad they . . . . .
Well that is my opinion & I now am considered a "flat-lander" because I live in MA. I could not afford to continue to live in VT. Well maybe but I would have been very poor. I do want to say I am as guilty myself. Instead of trying to do anything about what was happening I chose to leave. Who knows maybe some day soon I will return & get involved in representing the true natives?? The bottom line I would say - VT has now turned into a state for the independently weathy person. And I do not believe you will find % wise that many natives left in Brattleboro area unless they are elderly.
Now not to say there are not some great things in VT in the area of organic & artistic but I hopefully answered your question from personal experience.
Could not be more true.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
