[Yankeesfan]

Just read this article in the Burlington Free Press that confirms some recent discussions here: that young college graduates would like to stay in Vermont but feel that potential salaries are too low for the cost of living:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...13/1009&theme=

[KoZmiC NinJa]

National employors come to Vermont to take advantage of
the employee unfriendly work atmosphere the same way
they go into Mexico and exploit them. My company for
instance, starts certain positions in their Kentucky facility
for 3.00-4.00 more an hour for the exact same job. Made all
the more insulting due to the fact that the area of Kentucky
they are located has a 17-20% lower cost of living. The state
of Vermont itself has determined 14.21 is the minimum liveable
wage for a single person. UVM did a study for its employees that
said 13.81 was the minimum liveable wage for the Burlington area.
Some Masters degreed Mental Health positions here in Rutland are
paying a whopping 15.00 per hour. In Del. PA, Jersey, VA, etc,
people who work in Kinkos make more than that........
Why is an educated person going to hang out in a place that pays
them 1/2 of what they are worth elsewhere ?

[VTeratheart]

Family nearby
SAFETY
Sense of community/small town
School quality
Beauty/seasons

These are reasons why we're having a hard time justifying leaving to go to a "less expensinve" state.

[flu189]

K Ninja has hit the nail on the head! My older son is working on his masters and realizes that even that will not provide income to live and pay off loans. Needless to say he spends quite a bit of time checking out other destinations for opportunity and development. My younger son is a sophomore out of state and really wanted to stay to go to UVM, but the costs involved and prospect of oppressing debt led him elsewhere. He gets tuition and fee breaks even as an out-of state student worth four times more than any incentives he could have ever hoped to get here. Both my sons really wish they could make Vt their home, but they realize that careers that pay a liveable wage are critical for their futures. It's not just the fact of making more money, but also the ability to create and contribute to retrement funds to protect their future. Reading today's news the talk of creating a scholarship fund still pops up with the stated purpose of "creating incentives" to remain in VT. First of all the amount of the scholarship is very low when compared to the costs and then the "incentive" involves committing to remain in state for a fixed time or face paying back funds. I myself have a degree which has not provided me any career/pay opportunity, so I found something else to provide income needed. Anyway, the legislature knows we are suffering brain drain and the demographic forecasts are pretty clear for the future, but until affordability issues are dealt with in a meaningful way nothing will change.

[Jason_Els]

Scholarships won't do what making the state more tax-friendly will. Vermont has the talent businesses want, but the restrictions aren't worth locating business there unless the business owners can afford to want to be there and are willing to eat the costs involved. Small private companies, usually controlled by an owner, can do that. Large public companies don't see being in Vermont as a benefit so they take one look at the taxes and the business restrictions, not to mention infrastructure, and stay away.

As service industries flee the US like manufacturing did, it will simply become harder and harder for Vermont to compete.

I admit, a lot of the business restrictions, such as zoning, emissions, waste disposal, and signage add to what makes Vermont such an attractive place to live, but Vermont needs to work much harder to attract clean businesses and provide the infrastructure to support them.

[seanpecor]

Originally Posted by VTeratheart

Family nearby
SAFETY
Sense of community/small town
School quality
Beauty/seasons

These are reasons why we're having a hard time justifying leaving to go to a "less expensinve" state.

I hear ya. But to be honest, I'm a Vermonter living in Roanoke, Virginia. Southwestern Virginia is as safe (or safer) than Vermont, there is a sense of community down here unlike anything I experienced living in several areas of Vermont (Burlington, Essex, Orwell). The schools, by the numbers, down here do as well or better than where we came from in Vermont. And we also have the beauty of four seasons. Four seasons in my town (Boones Mill) are distinct and about 3 months in length. This is in contrast to living in Vermont, where it seemed like Winter lasted for 6 months, leaving Spring, Summer and Fall only about two months each. Vermont is a real great place to live. BUT, if you don't LOVE six months of winter it can really grind on you. If Vermonters want to promote Vermont, and attract and retain young people, then they have to have a more sophisticated self appraisal process that identifies the true and unique strengths of Vermont to people who really love the lifestyle that Vermont can offer. Saying Vermont has four seasons, natural beauty and a sense of community isn't enough. Plenty of places in the country offer that, only with 20% higher salaries and a 20% lower cost of living. Hopefully the eco-dev folks keep digging and find some answers.

Vermont needs to be more business friendly too. Down here in SW and South Central Virginia we are good stewards of the environment AND we help businesses prosper. As a result, our area enjoys a much healthier economic climate.

With that said, Vermont's population is growing, but if you look at the fastest growing counties, they're almost all up along the Canadian border. You've got folks retiring in the islands up there on the West side, and folks retiring in the Northeast Kingdom to enjoy it's mostly untouched natural beauty. Vermont will need to really fight to attract and retain young professionals if they hope to support an ever increasing number of retired folks who will depend on young pups to drive the economy to support it's old folks

Sean

[pucabear]

Originally Posted by VTeratheart

Family nearby
SAFETY
Sense of community/small town
School quality
Beauty/seasons

These are reasons why we're having a hard time justifying leaving to go to a "less expensinve" state.

Those things, plus cost of living, convenience to shopping, lower taxes, no state income taxes are the exact reason I am leaving here.

[VTeratheart]

Where are you moving to?

[flu189]

It really seems not a week goes by where some fee or tax is increased, but the news this week has been somewhat of an exceptional one. I was not surprised to learn that 139 state employees make 90k or more as I am a state employee myself who makes 33.3% of that amount and have seen all the titles for state jobs that are in the high income bracket. What did surprise me was that the 90k club was slated for an annual 4.15% increase (now apparently toned down to 2.25 if passed). My contract will be renewed this year and the state's plan was to offer a .5% increase which I have heard might now actually be 1.5%. Even so, the increase does not match the increase in cost of living not to mention the union dues paid to bargain for the 1.5% increase. Then, with all this talk of affordability and keeping young people here an article appears claiming to dubunk the brain drain from the state followed up by the announcement of tuition increases. Way to go! Then CVPS (electric utility) announces planned "modest" rate increases. Despite businesses protests the state will go forth and levy a 35% additional tax on Vt Yankee in the hopes to use the money to increase the coffers of Efficiency Vermont with the goal of saving us all money. For some reason I don't see Effeciency Vermont sending me a check to replace my furnace with a new one. To borrow a phrase from four years ago, shock and awe! K Ninja if you are reading this, congrats on your sale and Pucabear wish you luck on your offers. On the plus side, the weather is finally becoming nice and it is a pure joy spend more time in the woods or just riding the back roads.

[pucabear]

Originally Posted by flu189

It really seems not a week goes by where some fee or tax is increased, but the news this week has been somewhat of an exceptional one. I was not surprised to learn that 139 state employees make 90k or more as I am a state employee myself who makes 33.3% of that amount and have seen all the titles for state jobs that are in the high income bracket. What did surprise me was that the 90k club was slated for an annual 4.15% increase (now apparently toned down to 2.25 if passed). My contract will be renewed this year and the state's plan was to offer a .5% increase which I have heard might now actually be 1.5%. Even so, the increase does not match the increase in cost of living not to mention the union dues paid to bargain for the 1.5% increase. Then, with all this talk of affordability and keeping young people here an article appears claiming to dubunk the brain drain from the state followed up by the announcement of tuition increases. Way to go! Then CVPS (electric utility) announces planned "modest" rate increases. Despite businesses protests the state will go forth and levy a 35% additional tax on Vt Yankee in the hopes to use the money to increase the coffers of Efficiency Vermont with the goal of saving us all money. For some reason I don't see Effeciency Vermont sending me a check to replace my furnace with a new one. To borrow a phrase from four years ago, shock and awe! K Ninja if you are reading this, congrats on your sale and Pucabear wish you luck on your offers. On the plus side, the weather is finally becoming nice and it is a pure joy spend more time in the woods or just riding the back roads.

Thank you, flu189. We accepted the one offer, which is very solid. So, we should be out by month's end. Everything is falling into place!