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I think you Debbie-Downers are wrong! In certain parts of the county at certain price ranges houses are snapped up within a week and there isn't even enough to go around. We were looking at homes 300-400k in Bowie, Lanham, and Glenn Dale earlier this year and the glut of foreclosure/short sale deals dried up sometime before May. As other threads on this forum have noted, areas like Hyattsville and Cheverly are even MORE in demand! Now a well maintained home in that price range doesn't even sit on the market. They may be short sales and foreclosures, but these houses aren't sitting around causing blight in the neighborhood. And have people been house-hunting in Virginia lately? A house in the Fairwood development in Bowie would cost more than 700k (prob more like 800k) almost ANYWHERE in Northern Virginia or Moco that is decent commuting distance to DC. PG county is the last affordable place left for young families in this region who don't want to live in an ugly rambler the size of a shoebox, or commute 2 hours each way into D.C. If I had the money, I would buy ANOTHER house in PG, that's how convinced I am that there's an opportunity for growth here.
And you want to know something interesting and oh so ironic? Those Fairwood homes were priced at 800k during the boom and a lot of them lost close to half their value. Please do the research it would shock you. You literally just proved my point.
As far as those places you mentioned I don't doubt their popularity but I think most people would agree that prices 4-5 years ago, not NOW, were extremely overpriced and lead to many of the mortgages being underwater today. What they are priced at now really doesn't have anything to do with the main point.
I think you Debbie-Downers are wrong! In certain parts of the county at certain price ranges houses are snapped up within a week and there isn't even enough to go around. We were looking at homes 300-400k in Bowie, Lanham, and Glenn Dale earlier this year and the glut of foreclosure/short sale deals dried up sometime before May. As other threads on this forum have noted, areas like Hyattsville and Cheverly are even MORE in demand! Now a well maintained home in that price range doesn't even sit on the market. They may be short sales and foreclosures, but these houses aren't sitting around causing blight in the neighborhood. And have people been house-hunting in Virginia lately? A house in the Fairwood development in Bowie would cost more than 700k (prob more like 800k) almost ANYWHERE in Northern Virginia or Moco that is decent commuting distance to DC. PG county is the last affordable place left for young families in this region who don't want to live in an ugly rambler the size of a shoebox, or commute 2 hours each way into D.C. If I had the money, I would buy ANOTHER house in PG, that's how convinced I am that there's an opportunity for growth here.
Well this is true I guess at some price point these homes will sell. I hate to be the people who paid 400K for a condo a few years back though.
Really dude? lol Okay. Let me rephrase. DC still has a large percentage of African Americans. My point was, that didn't deter the gentrification we see happening in some of the more depressed majority minority neighborhoods in DC.
One of the PG neighborhoods where houses (in good shape) get snapped up very quickly is University Park. However, all year inventory there has been down from the year before by between 70 and 90 percent, according to Redfin. I suspect that's because would-be sellers there are under water and are either staying put or renting out. It's very frustrating to my husband and me, who are highly qualified buyers. We're ready to buy, immediately, when something shows up. It's a wonderful neighborhood but very little is for sale.
And you want to know something interesting and oh so ironic? Those Fairwood homes were priced at 800k during the boom and a lot of them lost close to half their value. Please do the research it would shock you. You literally just proved my point.
As far as those places you mentioned I don't doubt their popularity but I think most people would agree that prices 4-5 years ago, not NOW, were extremely overpriced and lead to many of the mortgages being underwater today. What they are priced at now really doesn't have anything to do with the main point.
But housing prices were wildly inflated everywhere. I know this because we were looking at houses in the 300-400k range in Fairfax county that were also priced at 600k during the boom. And those were not nice houses either. It just took longer for PG county to recover, there were probably more houses purchased at those inflated prices in PG, and the prices in PG are probably going to be depressed for awhile longer.
Lookie here:
Quote:
Washington-area housing prices posted healthy October gains, with the best year-over-year increase in Prince George's County, according to listings service MRIS.
Monthly analysis from its RealEstate Business Intelligence unit shows metrowide the median sales price in October was up 13.3 percent from a year ago to $362,500. Sellers got, on average, 96 percent of their asking price.
Prince George's County, one of the hardest hit local areas during the housing market slowdown, still has the lowest sales prices, but the median sales price in October was up 20 percent from a year ago to $180,000.
We bought a house in PG that, in good condition, would probably go for 400k right now. Most of the houses in the neighborhood were built in 2003 for around 380-390. The people who have been in their homes for 10 years without taking out a second mortgage haven't exactly made a lot of equity, but they're not underwater either. It's the people who bought during the boom or took out a second mortgage (like the people we bought the house from) who got screwed.
I'm not saying things are sunshine and roses, I just want to balance the frequent doom-and-gloom on this board. These threads can be frightening for people who are thinking about purchasing in PG, which doesn't exactly help the situation.
But housing prices were wildly inflated everywhere. I know this because we were looking at houses in the 300-400k range in Fairfax county that were also priced at 600k during the boom. And those were not nice houses either. It just took longer for PG county to recover, there were probably more houses purchased at those inflated prices in PG, and the prices in PG are probably going to be depressed for awhile longer.
You can't compare Fairfax to PG County. There is no comparison. Fairfax has way more jobs, more amenities, much better school and less crime. Most of that starts with the median income, so comparing PG to Fairfax is apples to oranges. A completely different socioeconomic make-up between the two places through no fault of either, it's just how both have been marketed. If a place like that is price in Fairfax it has probably lost a lot less value than a place in PG. There was never a justification for prices to be that high in PG. Fairfax was likely overpriced a bit just like anywhere else in this country, but PG prices were extreme. Number don't lie. If percent of inflated prices were the same between the two jurisdiction then wouldn't the recover time be pretty similar? There's a reason why people are mostly STILL underwater.
Look Fairfax is expensive. No doubt about it. But if you ask anyone if money wasn't a factor where would they choose to live in this region, most would choose Fairfax more than others. If the prices were really that outrageous than we would be talking about how many Fairfax mortgages are underwater but they are not, are they?
What you are say is a bit bias. It appears that you are trying to use Fairfax in this argument, but you are not acknowledging why PG is taking longer. That is the purpose of the conversation. Almost every jurisdiction suffered, Fairfax is no exception, but that doesn't make your point valid because there are real issues that prevent PG from justifying the prices that were being charged at that time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimar
We bought a house in PG that, in good condition, would probably go for 400k right now. Most of the houses in the neighborhood were built in 2003 for around 380-390. The people who have been in their homes for 10 years without taking out a second mortgage haven't exactly made a lot of equity, but they're not underwater either. It's the people who bought during the boom or took out a second mortgage (like the people we bought the house from) who got screwed.
I'm not saying things are sunshine and roses, I just want to balance the frequent doom-and-gloom on this board. These threads can be frightening for people who are thinking about purchasing in PG, which doesn't exactly help the situation.
I understand your angle, but you are being extreme on the other side. Look I have no reason to lie, I'm not going to put down PG if there weren't facts, I'm a homeowner and native. It hurts me, just as much as anyone else, when the prices aren't going up, but it's time for people to accept the reality of what has happened. Why is PG the only jurdisdiction in this region not to completely recover from the housing crash? The situation is real. Does that mean that PG is completely undesirable? Of course not, but what it does mean is, during the housing boom, there was some extreme inflation in the prices and poor real estate decisions being made. This is not about doom and gloom these are facts. I'm sorry if the truth isn't flowery like you want it, but that's not how the truth works. You can't lie to people. Anyone that has any experience with real estate knows that something is seriously wrong with the PG has dealt with real estate. I think a serious conversation needs to made about the lack of education of people who get into real estate. Just because you have money doesn't mean you know how to use it.
By the way, if you really want to argue about more people buying homes in PG during the crisis, consider that Prince William had more foreclosures than any other part of this region, YET they have fully recovered and the property value has gone way up. This has nothing to do with the amount of people who brought these homes obviously because if it were, PWC would be in the position that PG is in now.
Really dude? lol Okay. Let me rephrase. DC still has a large percentage of African Americans. My point was, that didn't deter the gentrification we see happening in some of the more depressed majority minority neighborhoods in DC.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't DC virtually recession proof? I don't see the point that you are trying to make. DC had much different circumstances than PG. Gentrification was never affected by the housing crisis.
You can't compare Fairfax to PG County. There is no comparison. Fairfax has way more jobs, more amenities, much better school and less crime. Most of that starts with the median income, so comparing PG to Fairfax is apples to oranges. A completely different socioeconomic make-up between the two places through no fault of either, it's just how both have been marketed. If a place like that is price in Fairfax it has probably lost a lot less value than a place in PG. There was never a justification for prices to be that high in PG. Fairfax was likely overpriced a bit just like anywhere else in this country, but PG prices were extreme. Number don't lie. If percent of inflated prices were the same between the two jurisdiction then wouldn't the recover time be pretty similar? There's a reason why people are mostly STILL underwater.
Look Fairfax is expensive. No doubt about it. But if you ask anyone if money wasn't a factor where would they choose to live in this region, most would choose Fairfax more than others. If the prices were really that outrageous than we would be talking about how many Fairfax mortgages are underwater but they are not, are they?
What you are say is a bit bias. It appears that you are trying to use Fairfax in this argument, but you are not acknowledging why PG is taking longer. That is the purpose of the conversation. Almost every jurisdiction suffered, Fairfax is no exception, but that doesn't make your point valid because there are real issues that prevent PG from justifying the prices that were being charged at that time.
I understand your angle, but you are being extreme on the other side. Look I have no reason to lie, I'm not going to put down PG if there weren't facts, I'm a homeowner and native. It hurts me, just as much as anyone else, when the prices aren't going up, but it's time for people to accept the reality of what has happened. Why is PG the only jurdisdiction in this region not to completely recover from the housing crash? The situation is real. Does that mean that PG is completely undesirable? Of course not, but what it does mean is, during the housing boom, there was some extreme inflation in the prices and poor real estate decisions being made. This is not about doom and gloom these are facts. I'm sorry if the truth isn't flowery like you want it, but that's not how the truth works. You can't lie to people. Anyone that has any experience with real estate knows that something is seriously wrong with the PG has dealt with real estate. I think a serious conversation needs to made about the lack of education of people who get into real estate. Just because you have money doesn't mean you know how to use it.
By the way, if you really want to argue about more people buying homes in PG during the crisis, consider that Prince William had more foreclosures than any other part of this region, YET they have fully recovered and the property value has gone way up. This has nothing to do with the amount of people who brought these homes obviously because if it were, PWC would be in the position that PG is in now.
I have to be honest, I have no idea what you're arguing with me here. I'm just saying that there are a lot of good deals in PG, particularly for young people, and it's ok if the recovery is slower here than in other areas. Any recovery is good. I'm not trying to pull a molukai here, so to speak.
I will stand by my long-held sentiment that Fairfax county is wildly over-rated (you can check my posts from when I first joined this forum!). If you work there, fine. But if you don't, it's wild. The schools where we were looking, in Alexandria, were NOT that good, and were in fact comparable to schools in the area of PG where we are buying. The traffic was a NIGHTMARE. It's a nightmare during rush hour, it was a nightmare on Saturday, it's a nightmare on Sunday. The strip malls everywhere just don't do it for me either. The housing stock is simply not that nice, it's mostly shoebox ramblers from the 50's and 60's, cramped townhouses, and newer, incredibly expensive McMansions crammed onto teeny tiny lots.
Even then, there is already a big difference between what your money will buy in NOVA and what it'll buy in PG. For 400k you can get a 4br, 2.5 bath home in Bowie built around 1990 with a decent lot, at least. That same money will buy you a teeny tiny old rambler or townhouse in Fairfax. I think that's fair, don't you?
And for what it's worth, I'm speaking from the perspective of someone coming in. Obviously there are a lot of problems within PG, but that's ok. The people who need an education in real estate have gotten that education- the HARD WAY. That's really sad but it's also lot harder to get a mortgage now as a result. I already feel like there is a speculative bubble in a lot of these areas in DC and Virginia, and PG doesn't need that. Multiple investors were offering cash for the house we ended up buying, so I may even be wrong on that front.
I have to be honest, I have no idea what you're arguing with me here. I'm just saying that there are a lot of good deals in PG, particularly for young people, and it's ok if the recovery is slower here than in other areas. Any recovery is good. I'm not trying to pull a molukai here, so to speak.
It's not okay that the recovery is slower. It shows that there are some issues that are going on here. I definitely have an issue with it, because it greatly affects me as a homeowner. The fact that every county/city in the region except PG has made a significant recovery disturbs me and it should disturb you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimar
I will stand by my long-held sentiment that Fairfax county is wildly over-rated (you can check my posts from when I first joined this forum!). If you work there, fine. But if you don't, it's wild. The schools where we were looking, in Alexandria, were NOT that good, and were in fact comparable to schools in the area of PG where we are buying. The traffic was a NIGHTMARE. It's a nightmare during rush hour, it was a nightmare on Saturday, it's a nightmare on Sunday. The strip malls everywhere just don't do it for me either. The housing stock is simply not that nice, it's mostly shoebox ramblers from the 50's and 60's, cramped townhouses, and newer, incredibly expensive McMansions crammed onto teeny tiny lots.
What do you expect? You are fixated on the houses. Even in Alexandria (Fairfax County or the city?) where schools aren't good, they benefit from having amenities that PG doesn't like low crime. People are willing to pay more money and get less home to have these things. If you like having a bigger homes for less money then you made the right decision but places like Fairfax and Alexandria can charge the money they do because that is what the market has dictated.
As far as traffic, I think the traffic in NoVA is overrated. I have either worked in Prince William County, Fairfax County, Montgomery and Prince George's County and I can tell you that every place that I have been has had significant traffic. There isn't a place in this region immune to it. Have you been on Indian Head Highway in the evening? It's awful. What about 495 around College Park? Awful. Downtown Silver Spring? Awful. Tysons Corner on 495? Awful. I've driven through all these areas on a regular basis and none of them is any better than the other. They are all bad. This is one of the most dense places in the country, there is no avoiding traffic. If there is such a place, give it a few months and I guarantee you people will move there and it won't be that way anymore.
If you don't like Fairfax, nothing wrong with that. That's your own personal preference but there are about a million people who disagree with your feelings. You have every right to feel the way you feel, but if you ask another person they may see things completely different. I'm actually very neutral on Fairfax. I like it to a point, but I think it's a great place to raise a family and it's a great place to live if you can afford it, but that's just my opinion. And if you think that all of their houses are dated, I think you may have missed out on a lot. There are a lot of newer developments, but of course the prices are high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimar
Even then, there is already a big difference between what your money will buy in NOVA and what it'll buy in PG. For 400k you can get a 4br, 2.5 bath home in Bowie built around 1990 with a decent lot, at least. That same money will buy you a teeny tiny old rambler or townhouse in Fairfax. I think that's fair, don't you?
What's your point? You may get a 4br house, but what else are you not getting? Look at the crime rate, look at the school, look at the shopping, look at the jobs around those areas? Are they really that comparable? If we just match house to house, then yes you aren't getting much value, but people don't just buy houses just to get houses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimar
And for what it's worth, I'm speaking from the perspective of someone coming in. Obviously there are a lot of problems within PG, but that's ok. The people who need an education in real estate have gotten that education- the HARD WAY. That's really sad but it's also lot harder to get a mortgage now as a result. I already feel like there is a speculative bubble in a lot of these areas in DC and Virginia, and PG doesn't need that. Multiple investors were offering cash for the house we ended up buying, so I may even be wrong on that front.
Some people are learning the hard way, but again if you don't have parents who have dealt with real estate and you start out with a lot of money, how do you know what to invest your money in? I akin this to many pro athletes who are making tons of money for the first time. Many of them end up broke because they don't know how to manage money. Well, why would it be any different for the people in PG? Did you know that whites have 20 times more wealth than blacks and 18 times more wealth than hispanics in this nation? Many minorities, particularly blacks, do not have the luxury of being educated from parents on how to spend money. White people, in general, have more wealth because it is passed down for generation. If you ever watch HGTV and watch them come around the DC region many of the people buying places in places like Arlington and Alexandria can put down huge down payments because they either parents with money or they have been given a place with a lot of value that they can sell for a huge profit. How many minorities parents do you see doing this for their children?
Many of us black people are the first generation to....How do you expect these people to know how to make a wise investment? Getting real estate isn't simple as buying a nice home. You are investing into a community and hope that your investment will yield some profit for you and your family in addition to provide a home for your family, but when you don't factor all the things that impact that value, then how do you prepare yourself to make a sound investment?
And even with all that said, I'm not too sure that this is a lesson because we live in a society that it's everyone else's fault. You don't hear people saying that they made a mistake getting the mortgage they got, you hear them saying, it's the bank's fault, the paperwork was confusing or they trusted their lender. If this is the mentality people will take, nothing will ever change. Not even 4 years later.....
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