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I hate to add a new thread, but I've read the others thoroughly and thought I'd post a question with our specific information to see if anyone can help us out.
We're relocating from PA. We can spend up to $600K on a home (prefer closer to 500K or less) Need 3 bedrooms, but don't mind if home is very small or town house. Just want enough room for a little vegetable garden and a tree or two. (possibly a large patio or deck would suffice)
My husband will work in Bethesda, and I will stay home with the kids (4 and 6) another year or so, then either go back to school a year or two, or go straight to work. I expect I'd probably work at some kind of non-profit for a not-too-high salary.
So.. where to live.
Like lots of people, I want a walkable community. Both my husband and I would prefer to commute by public transportation if possible, and to live a fairly simple, home-and-friends-oriented life. I love progressive enclaves (lived in Ithaca, NY, Boulder, CO and Cambridge, MA) Good schools are very important to us (one of the reasons we're happy to move from our current home) But "good school" to me doesn't mean only test scores. I want a school that is diverse, but also can challenge kids who are working above-grade-level. Also looking for a school that teaches critical thinking and encourages individuality and creativity. (I only mention this, because people are always talking about "good" and "bad" schools, and I am never sure how to tell if I would agree or not)
We've made two visits to the area, and here is what I'm thinking:
1. Everyone tells me I'd fit right in to Takoma Park, and I think it's probably true. We fell in love with a house there, but it's close to Flower Ave/Langley Park side, and I've read there's increasing gang activity there. (though what that means for the average resident I don't know.) Friends who live in Takoma Park seem to feel quite safe but say you shouldn't walk back from the metro at night.. I say, then what's the point of living by the metro? As much as I like the idea of Takoma Park, I don't want to drive around too much, and I want to feel safe (preferably even as our kids get older and start going into the city on their own) Of course, on reflection, I guess there were people in Cambridge who wouldn't want to walk home from the T in the area in which I did it all the time..
Also, Takoma Park doesn't seem to have that much to walk to, in terms of stores/restaurants etc.
2. An obvious choice is Bethesda, where my husband could walk to work. I like that it is a walkable town. In fact, I like a lot of stuff about it. But it's so darn wealthy. We could (maybe) afford a home there (a very small fixer-upper) but couldn't afford to do much fixer-uppering. And while I like that it has the "best" schools, I'm a little worried about the environment. Is it materialistic? (We don't have stuff like iphones and wii and fancy tvs and stereo equipment, we don't have fancy cars and can't afford exotic vacations or expensive hobbies like downhill skiing.. Will our children feel out of the loop?) Are the schools too high-pressure and achievement oriented?
3. A very good childhood friend of mine lives in Chevy Chase DC. If I could find something there, I'd love to live by him and his family. Lafayette is supposed to be a good elementary school, and our friends are hopeful that by the time their kids get to the middle and high schools, that they will be better too. The thing is, if they're not, our friends can afford private schools whereas we could not. People tell me that the middle school is pretty good now, and that things are looking up for the high school. Thoughts? Anyone in-the-know about the future of the middle and high school for this area? (I do realize that Chevy Chase is also a wealthy neighborhood.. I mean, really, compared to where we are now, all these neighborhoods are..)
4. Kensington.. This seems like a good choice, but it's not on the metro. I think the Walter Johnson school cluster might be a good compromise because they are still "very good schools", yet also at least a little more diverse both in terms of income and race.
5. Arlington. Is this so far from Chevy Chase that when we get busy with our lives we'll never see our friends there? Because one of the big plusses of moving to DC is that they are there. Is it a reasonable commute for my husband on the metro, if we can live close to the metro?
Also, everyone says the Arlington schools are great, but they don't get good scores on "great schools" website. Granted, they judge by test scores, and I just said that's not my criteria.. But I can't find any better way to compare schools online. Please tell me your thoughts! We briefly visited Arlington, and I liked how much there is to walk to, and I loved that we saw so many people out riding their bikes (didn't see this in Maryland)
If anything I've written inspires you to give us some advice, I'd be grateful!
In the Whitman school district, you do have some well-to-do people, World Bank types, and the two-earner families that have just made it. But you also have people whose families have lived here for a long time. Everyone complains about how competitive everyone is, but that doesn't stop them from being competitive. Then in Cabin John you have a mix of black/white, young/old, rich/poor. There are few houses in your range, but you can find some townhouses that fill the bill. Checkout 20812, and 20818 zip codes.
In the end you will always be able to find like-minded people.
on reflection, I guess there were people in Cambridge who wouldn't want to walk home from the T in the area
I'm from Mass. originally and moved here from Boston. Takoma Park is not Cambridge, it's got the same politics, but it's far less walkable, and its metro stop is just over the border in DC, not far from some sketchy neighborhoods. It's a far cry from living in a residential area of Cambridge and being a 5-10 minute walk from the Porter, Kendall, or Harvard T-stops.
Bethesda is walkable near its downtown, but like Takoma Park, it's only get one metro stop, so you would be driving a lot.
Based on what you've described, I think you'd like Arlington the best. Because it's small geographically, most of its schools, even those in very wealthy areas, are ethnically diverse, because they're districted to pick up Latin American immigrants who live in nearby apartment complexes, as well as blacks and Asians. Two of its three high schools - Yorktown and Washington-Lee are good, the third - Wakefield - would probably not meet your standards.
It's politically liberal. Many people there would rather show off their political views than their new car.
It's got more than one Metro stop, so all the walking isn't centered in one area. It's actually easier to live without a car in many part of Arlington than it is in some part of DC.
Arlington is probably the closest DC comes to Cambridge. Bethesda is more like Brookline or Newton, but with worse transit access.
I second the recommendation of Arlington, Virginia. You can live in tidy close-knit neighborhoods of detached single-family dwellings built in the 1940s-1960s on narrow lots with leafy streets within a mile's walk of the Metrorail stations in the famed Orange Line corridor. Arlington is becoming increasingly "yuppified", but it still seems to be less pretentious overall (for now) than Bethesda. I currently live in the exurb of Reston, VA and am already making preliminary plans for a Spring 2011 relocation to the Cherrydale neighborhood. The Orange Line corridor (Ballston/Virginia Square, Clarendon, Court House, and Rosslyn) is predominantly upper-middle-class, college-educated, white-collar, younger (mid-20s through mid-30s), and single. The surrounding neighborhoods, such as Waverly Hills, Cherrydale, Westover, Lyon Village, etc. will be home to more of your "crunchier" families, also generally upper-middle-class. The Columbia Pike Corridor, which runs between Fort Myer and Bailey's Crossroads a few miles south of the Orange Line, is probably the most affordable part of Arlington, and it is also the most diverse; however, even here there have been several newer upscale mixed-use projects as the corridor undergoes infill and redevelopment. Arlington is growing---quickly---and it has nowhere to build but upwards.
I would never use test score averages as a proper barometer of a school's trailing quality. I'm a 2005 product of a public high school in Pennsylvania that had a horrific reputation, yet I can rattle off dozens of success stories who now reside all over the nation and are doing amazing things in life. A school can only do so much if the parents have zero motivation to take an active role in the education of their children.
Contrary to popular belief Arlington isn't "far away" from DC (while Bethesda, Maryland is somehow magically "right next-door"). I think a lot of people in DC are afraid of bridges. I've walked from Downtown DC (National Mall area) to Ballston, on the western side of Arlington, on numerous occasions with limited difficulties, yet there are some people who won't walk 1/2-mile to Georgetown from either the Foggy Bottom or Rosslyn train stations, so go figure. Arlington is by far one of the most walkable and sustainable communities in the entire region, especially for Virginia, which overall is pretty poorly-planned (see Tysons Corner for a good example of this).
For commuting to Bethesda, I'd rule out Arlington. It's nearly an hour on the Metro one way, and driving is even worst with rush-hour traffic.
If you want to be near the Metro and Bethesda, then your best option will be anywhere near the Red Line. In particular, the area surrounding Friendship Heights and Tenleytown my have something in your price range.
As far as schools go, you can't go wrong in the areas you're considering. I'd also take Greatschool.org's reports with a grain of salt. Boiling down a school's performance to a 10-point scale is a gross oversimplification that is prone to all types of statistical errors. Their results are also partially dependent on a self-selecting small sample of parents which can easily distort a score.
Last edited by Smoke_Jaguar4; 08-28-2010 at 06:39 PM..
Thank you, all of you.. It's funny, Smoke Jaguar.. I had sort of ruled out VA a few weeks ago, but the second and third reply on this forum (and one friend) had me thinking I really might like Arlington best.. So I've spent the last half day searching for homes there.. (and at the moment have about 12 pages open, with different listings there) But I think you might be right.. It might just not make sense to move so far from my husband's job when we don't have to, and when we don't know yet where I'll be working. I hate to give up Arlington, though, because it does seem to fit the bill most closely! I was also surprised to discover that Arlington seems to be even more expensive than Bethesda, if you want to live in walking distance to the metro. (maybe there are fewer super-expensive houses, but the houses in our range almost look in better shape on the Bethesda side.. Though of course it's hard to tell online)
I'm feeling a little guilty for raising the question of safety in Takoma Park, because I don't have the stats or anything.. just parroting what I've read in other threads (what are good websites for researching crime statistics in MD and VA? So that I'm not just going by hearsay and perception when I try to judge the safety of a neighborhood) I love the sense of community I picked up there..
Thanks Blase, I'll check out Bethesda further.. (and the zips you mention)
Smoke Jaguar, I agree completely about not judging schools by those scores. The problem is, I don't know how else to evaluate them. I've been trying since we started this process to figure out what people mean when they say DC schools are "bad". (i wonder how that is possible, with the tax base they have) I've begun to get an idea through other threads here.. But it's not easy figuring out how particular schools differ.
On the hunt for a good home, my wife was the same way (we're similar to your family with kids aged 6 & 2). I'd highly recommend finding a good realtor who knows the area you want to settle in. The internet is great but having a local expert is well worth it.
Regarding schools, this area is spoiled by the great education we have here. There are no 'bad' schools in Montgomery or Arlington Counties. As far as DC schools go, any school in the North West part of town is good; the bulk of the 'bad' schools service the historically impoverished and crime-ridden areas of town (South East and parts of North East).
Re. Kensington...check the bus route coverage...I wouldn't rule it out b/c it is not on the Metro...the bus systems can be pretty good at getting you to a Metro station especially since parking at most Metro stations is an absolute bear. From how you describe yourself, you would definitely feel comfortable in "MoCo". I would rule out Arlington County -- there are plenty of options that fit your needs within MoCo.
I think we're going to look closer at Bethesda/Rockville/Kensington on our next visit.. Thanks! (any comments or suggestions for Rockville, in neighborhoods that are walkable to metro?)
There is a planned community in the Rockville/Gaithersburg area called Kentlands, which I found to be quite nice. (It was one of my top choices during our housing search but we ended up in Virginia due to employment.) Reminded me of a colonial town, only without the colonists, lol. It seemed very walkable. You may want to check it out. I wish you all the best!
and some photos to get an idea of the type of residents and environs...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kentlandsdowntown/4769321035/in/photostream/ (broken link)
"Kentlands is an award-winning neo-traditional community in Gaithersburg, Maryland. What makes this neighborhood different is that people can walk to do their shopping, walk to school or work. There are single family homes, town homes, condominiums and rental apartments along with work/home units. White picket fences, tree lined streets sidewalks and various common areas where neighbors gather are part of what make this community special. Kentlandsserves as a model for new-urbanism, an architectural design becoming ever more popular around the world."
Last edited by Gottasay; 09-12-2010 at 10:46 AM..
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I think a lot of people in DC are afraid of bridges. I've walked from Downtown DC (National Mall area) to Ballston, on the western side of Arlington, on numerous occasions with limited difficulties, yet there are some people who won't walk 1/2-mile to Georgetown from either the Foggy Bottom or Rosslyn train stations, so go figure. Arlington is by far one of the most walkable and sustainable communities in the entire region, especially for Virginia, which overall is pretty poorly-planned (see Tysons Corner for a good example of this).
