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I am doing research on why commuter rail service in the Northeast and Chicagoland is more heavily used than those in Western Cities such as Los Angeles despite the horrific traffic there. So what are your reasons for taking the train instead of driving or the bus?
I worked in downtown DC for 33 years and can't recall anyone mentioning that they ever rode VRE. Over that time, I knew at least 6 or 7 people who commuted from Fredericksburg and they all seemed to ride the bus, which they said cost less.
Last edited by slowlane3; 08-26-2011 at 07:28 AM..
Do you think that people's residences, and job sites, in Los Angeles are in more dispersed locations which are often not close to stations ? Also in NYC, consider that suburban commuters once they reach downtown, have the option of transferring to a wide choice of city subway lines to get closer to their exact work destination, where they can't do this in Los Angeles.
VRE and MARC both have modest daily ridership and are relatively new "systems" (maybe what 20-25 years old?)
Wouldn't think they are the best representations of traditional commuter rails like the ones in NY, NJ, CT, Phila, Boston and Chicago. I'd throw VRE and MARC into the newer wave of commuter rails like TRE in Dallas, WES in Portland, or Caltrain in San Francisco.
VRE and MARC have both grown at a pretty decent clip but they follow long established Amtrak and CSX rail lines which aren't necessarily where the population growth has been in this area. So, they are convenient for a select few folks who work near L'Efant Plaza or Capitol Hill and live in population hubs defined 100+ years ago. Some modest transit oriented development has occured around some stations, so that maybe has spurred a bit of their growth.
VRE and MARC also compete against a metro system designed as commuter rail/heavy rail hybrid. There are MARC stations in Silver Spring and Rockville, but why would you take that to Union Station vs. the Red Line if it's not going to be cheaper or quicker? (Metro likes to tout itself as the "second busiest subway system" in terms of daily ridership, but that's because places like Chicago and Boston have much more extensive tradition commuter rail systems).
Federal workers get a public transportation subsidy so I imagine a large portion of VRE and MARC ridership comes from them. The VRE trains that pull into the L'Efant station near the federal agencies in SW are jam packed. What was interesting to me about VRE and MARC commuters I knew when I contracted at fed agency, was that they were largely lower to middle management folks willing to live in the far flung 'burbs for find housing they can afford and halfway decent school systems for their kids. Nothing like the ruling class folks you see headed to Greenwich, CT on the MetroNorth or Lake Forest, IL on the Metra.
RozCat has a very cogent analysis right there; I hope you give her/him proper attribution in your paper. My thoughts are that the built environment and long-term service quality are the biggest determinants of a rail line's success, and all three tie into one another. The most popular rail lines around NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Boston (which account for the lion's share of commuter rail ridership in the USA) built both suburban towns and downtown office towers alongside the rail lines -- not the other way around. The most popular commuter line in the western USA is CalTrain, which also connects a string of towns that grew up alongside a century-old railroad.
And as RozCat points out, MARC and VRE don't quite do that for this region. It was a small metro in the era of railroad commuter suburbs, and now Metro largely serves those towns that did grow up then, e.g., Silver Spring, College Park, and Falls Church. Commuter rail here mostly serves park-and-ride exurban stations; it's too recent and too infrequent (no weekend service at all, little off-peak or reverse-commute service) to have much of an impact on development patterns or location decisions. It's telling that the priciest offices in downtown DC are far west of Union Station; that's nothing like Grand Central Station, Suburban Station, or Ogilvie Station, all of which command substantial rent premiums.
High-quality transit service will show ridership gains every year, as people first incorporate the service into their lives and then start to build their lives around the service; accumulate those ridership gains for a few decades, and you'll have developed a successful service.
I'd love to try it out one day but I'm a suburb-to-suburb commuter so have never had the chance nor a good reason. I will be glad when they start addressing suburban commuters.
MARC used to run a train back to DC from Camden Yard after nighttime O's games (pre-Nats era when Peter Angelos was courting DC area fans). It was always a fun ride. Would be great if MARC or VRE did a few weekend trips-- maybe's there's a tourist market for daytrips to and from Harpers Ferry, Frederick, Frederickburg or Baltimore.
MARC used to run a train back to DC from Camden Yard after nighttime O's games (pre-Nats era when Peter Angelos was courting DC area fans). It was always a fun ride. Would be great if MARC or VRE did a few weekend trips-- maybe's there's a tourist market for daytrips to and from Harpers Ferry, Frederick, Frederickburg or Baltimore.
That'd be great. I'd probably take a ride to Harper's Ferry for the weekend. If I could park at the VRE station in Burke or something that is.
. Would be great if MARC or VRE did a few weekend trips-- maybe's there's a tourist market for daytrips to and from Harpers Ferry, Frederick, Frederickburg or Baltimore.
Yeah, I would love to take the MARC up for the race in Baltimore this weekend.
VRE and MARC both have modest daily ridership and are relatively new "systems" (maybe what 20-25 years old?)
Wouldn't think they are the best representations of traditional commuter rails like the ones in NY, NJ, CT, Phila, Boston and Chicago. I'd throw VRE and MARC into the newer wave of commuter rails like TRE in Dallas, WES in Portland, or Caltrain in San Francisco.
VRE and MARC have both grown at a pretty decent clip but they follow long established Amtrak and CSX rail lines which aren't necessarily where the population growth has been in this area. So, they are convenient for a select few folks who work near L'Efant Plaza or Capitol Hill and live in population hubs defined 100+ years ago. Some modest transit oriented development has occured around some stations, so that maybe has spurred a bit of their growth.
VRE and MARC also compete against a metro system designed as commuter rail/heavy rail hybrid. There are MARC stations in Silver Spring and Rockville, but why would you take that to Union Station vs. the Red Line if it's not going to be cheaper or quicker? (Metro likes to tout itself as the "second busiest subway system" in terms of daily ridership, but that's because places like Chicago and Boston have much more extensive tradition commuter rail systems).
Federal workers get a public transportation subsidy so I imagine a large portion of VRE and MARC ridership comes from them. The VRE trains that pull into the L'Efant station near the federal agencies in SW are jam packed. What was interesting to me about VRE and MARC commuters I knew when I contracted at fed agency, was that they were largely lower to middle management folks willing to live in the far flung 'burbs for find housing they can afford and halfway decent school systems for their kids. Nothing like the ruling class folks you see headed to Greenwich, CT on the MetroNorth or Lake Forest, IL on the Metra.
False...DC's Metro has the same amount of riders as Chicago's L heavy rail and Metra commuter rail combined with close to 500 less miles of coverage since Metra goes way out from Chicago into the country much like Marc goes to West Virginia. If Marc and VRE are included, DC has more rail ridership than the entire Chicago MSA of 9.5 million people even though DC only has 5.5 million. DC is second only to NYC in transit usage in this country by a mile.
Chicago:
Chicago L Subway = 661,500 daily riders in Q1 2011
Metra Commuter Rail: 296,600 daily riders in Q1 2011
Chicago L' miles: 107.5 miles
Chicago Metra miles: 495 miles
Total Miles: 602.5 miles
Total Ridership: 958,100 daily ridership
DC:
DC Metro = 953,900 daily riders in Q1 2011
DC Metro miles = 106.3 miles
Total Miles: 106.3 miles
Total Ridership = 953,900 daily ridership
Chicago can't hang with DC in rail transit ridership. DC is second only to NYC in rail transit ridership. When you add in Marc and VRE ridership, DC is over 1,000,000 rail riders a day which only DC and NYC can lay claim too nationwide. Also, in Q2 during the warm months, DC's metro usually has a daily ridership of over 1,000,000 people by itself. With completion of the Silver Line soon an TOD around Metro stations at an all time high, DC will just keep widening the gap on ridership from everyone but NYC.
Just in case people wanted to know, here is the ridership for Marc and VRE:
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