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My definition of tropical would be where coconut palms thrive long term (50+ years). Borderline tropical is where coconuts thrive for years and fruit, but are killed by big freezes.
For the west coast: Ft. Myers and southward, but also including barrier islands as far north as Ana Maria Island. Borderline tropics near the coast up to Pinellas (to Clearwater Beach) and coastal Tampa.
For the east coast: South of Stuart. Borderline tropics extend to Ft. Pierce then off the mainland to Melbourne Beach and Cocoa Beach.
Inland areas are a bit more complicated because of the lake microclimates.
But for now, we have to stick with Koppen for the definition of tropical lol
Now we know for sure coconut trees were damaged but SURVIVED in Fort Myers as I came across an article after the "record" cold in Jan 2010 (coconut trees died around Orlando, inland).
If anyone knows of conditions of coconut trees North of Fort Myers, please post.
I know there are lots of coconut trees along Port Charlotte harbour, and there are lots of Canadian snowbirds in Port Charlotte. So please post if you know.
Now we know for sure coconut trees were damaged but SURVIVED in Fort Myers as I came across an article after the "record" cold in Jan 2010 (coconut trees died around Orlando, inland).
If anyone knows of conditions of coconut trees North of Fort Myers, please post.
I know there are lots of coconut trees along Port Charlotte harbour, and there are lots of Canadian snowbirds in Port Charlotte. So please post if you know.
I didn't have the intention of using January 2010 as the marker for my definition. Sure it got cold, but a real freeze (like the 80s) would decimate 99% of the coconut palms in borderline tropical places like St. Petersburg or Cocoa Beach. Not sure about Fort Myers. I heard coconut palms only survived on the barrier islands (like Pine Island) north of Naples after the freezes of the 80s. Are there any 50+ foot coconut palms in Ft. Myers?
Most coconut palms survived in St. Petersburg, Florida...
not my pic
Now we know for sure coconut trees were damaged but SURVIVED in Fort Myers as I came across an article after the "record" cold in Jan 2010 (coconut trees died around Orlando, inland).
If anyone knows of conditions of coconut trees North of Fort Myers, please post.
I know there are lots of coconut trees along Port Charlotte harbour, and there are lots of Canadian snowbirds in Port Charlotte. So please post if you know.
I didn't realize Canadians were experts on coco palm trees. lol
I didn't have the intention of using January 2010 as the marker for my definition. Sure it got cold, but a real freeze (like the 80s) would decimate 99% of the coconut palms in borderline tropical places like St. Petersburg or Cocoa Beach. Not sure about Fort Myers. I heard coconut palms only survived on the barrier islands (like Pine Island) north of Naples after the freezes of the 80s. Are there any 50+ foot coconut palms in Ft. Myers?
Most coconut palms survived in St. Petersburg, Florida...
not my pic
Using your logic, that coco palm from 1996 looks a bit scrawny. Given the years, shouldn't that tree be around 30ft tall? I would venture to say that tree is no more than 20' tall, and it has gotten protection from cold. Am not sure why S. Padre is not lined with coco palms for tourism purposes. The images of S. Padre rarely ever display coco palms.
It seems that just about every winter, S. Padre has a few days in a row of 40'sF temps(for high temps that is). I would think that may be the reason they are not long term there. If 1989 was the last big freeze, by this point you would think S. Padre would be lined with them one every street, like S. Florida. When you google street view S. Padre, you would be lucky to see one, and it is usually around 3' tall. From what I have seen, south Florida just about never has a high temp in the 40's, unlike S. Texas.
I'm thinking that maybe coconut palms are barely marginal in S. Texas, and only in very favorable micro climates.
Fort Myers Beach has tall coco along the road and beach, I think they are at least 30/40 foot tall, with coconuts hanging.
The coco palms I saw in Fort Myers before crossing the bridge to Fort Myers Beach were around 20 feet with coconuts hanging there.
Fort Myers (not Fort Myers Beach) is also called The City of Palms. She has tall royal palms lining up major streets, very beautiful. They are tall, thriving and green as opposed to royal palm in Orlando which are shorter and yellow in winter.
There's no report that coconut palms were damaged in Naples, and let's use this as an example.
There must be a reason why Koppen and NOAA determined 18C/64.4F as the cut off line between tropical and subtropical. If you look at the stats for Naples, it's 65.2F and all coconuts were not damaged whereas Fort Myers' stats is 64.1F (just below 64.4F) and (some) were damaged during the "record" cold spell in Jan 2010.
Using your logic, that coco palm from 1996 looks a bit scrawny. Given the years, shouldn't that tree be around 30ft tall? I would venture to say that tree is no more than 20' tall, and it has gotten protection from cold. Am not sure why S. Padre is not lined with coco palms for tourism purposes. The images of S. Padre rarely ever display coco palms.
It seems that just about every winter, S. Padre has a few days in a row of 40'sF temps(for high temps that is). I would think that may be the reason they are not long term there. If 1989 was the last big freeze, by this point you would think S. Padre would be lined with them one every street, like S. Florida. When you google street view S. Padre, you would be lucky to see one, and it is usually around 3' tall. From what I have seen, south Florida just about never has a high temp in the 40's, unlike S. Texas.
I'm thinking that maybe coconut palms are barely marginal in S. Texas, and only in very favorable micro climates.
S Texas is not warm enough to sustain long term growth for coco palms, I think.
I don't know if you meant royal palms instead of coco palms ?
The city of Fort Myers don't plant coco palms on streets because of maintenance issue. It's not economical to send city crews to take out all those coconuts or they will drop eventually drop on roads/cars/people causing accidents.
I don't know much about Brownsville as it's too far for me to snowbird there as I live in Toronto. But for argument sake I just spent some time to google images of Brownsville. Here's what I saw:
This is just for people who are not familiar with different species of palm trees (I am still learning):
(1) Coconut palms: Tall, curvy, with coconuts hanging.
(2) Royal palms: Tall, straight and beautiful, 30 40 foot tall, found on major streets in Fort Myers (and South Florida)
(3) Sable palms: Tall, not too handsome, can survive in colder subtropical climate in North Florida, southern Georgia and other areas.
Images of Brownsville:
- I saw no royal palms on any streets, let alone lots of royal palms.
- I only saw some royal palms in private residences (micro climate) and they are tiny, 10 foot tall.
- I only saw sable palms in South Padre island and Brownsville. This looks similiar to central and very similar to North Florida (a couple of royal palms in front of hotels, only 10-15 foot tall, yellow, dying).
So I think South Padre and Brownsville do not have favourable climate for even royal palms as seen in South Florida, and Central COASTAL florida (St Pete, Clearwater, Tampa, Sarasota; Fort Pierce, Cocoa Beach ...).
St Pete has tall, green and beautiful royal palms on streets.
Here is a row of Royal Palms I found on Google Images in Brownsville:
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