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Of course, when you lose them, that is also just business. They want to make more money, plain and simple, and via your voluntary attrition of said employee, the employee found a way to make more money.
That is how the market is supposed to function. While you may view it as unrealistic, by obtaining a higher salary elsewhere, even if only by a small amount, they demonstrated that gap in salary is what your next salary level for them was under Fair Market Value by.
I agree that it's part of the business cycle.
I wouldn't agree that their salary was necessarily under FMV but rather under their perceived self value. I happen to know what my competitors pay and can assure you I'm competitive (not taking into account the fact we have fantastic medical benefits).
When you move, most companies will exceed your current salary (otherwise why move, right?) and it's this practice I'm really focusing in on. You can see it on their CVs when they've had 5 jobs in 5 years. They're trying to force what they see as their FMV up. The reality is often that the company that they go to is paying them slightly more than they really want to and that is frequently reflected in the next pay raise, which then causes them to move on again to bump it up a bit more.
Of course, this is all just my opinion. I think it's best to stick a job out for a while, prove your worth and get rewarded for it rather than jumping around. It is what has worked for me and it's a trait I try and look for in my staff.
I wouldn't agree that their salary was necessarily under FMV but rather under their perceived self value. I happen to know what my competitors pay and can assure you I'm competitive (not taking into account the fact we have fantastic medical benefits).
When you move, most companies will exceed your current salary (otherwise why move, right?) and it's this practice I'm really focusing in on. You can see it on their CVs when they've had 5 jobs in 5 years. They're trying to force what they see as their FMV up. The reality is often that the company that they go to is paying them slightly more than they really want to and that is frequently reflected in the next pay raise, which then causes them to move on again to bump it up a bit more.
Of course, this is all just my opinion. I think it's best to stick a job out for a while, prove your worth and get rewarded for it rather than jumping around. It is what has worked for me and it's a trait I try and look for in my staff.
Not fully disagreeing, but from what I have seen, few corps downsize the next raise to bring them back to what they wish to pay. Most eat it (the extra cost), offering a normal raise (percentage basis), no doubt somewhat fearing what they did to Company X will be done again to them. They have a valid concern-it would be done to them.
I wouldn't agree that their salary was necessarily under FMV but rather under their perceived self value. I happen to know what my competitors pay and can assure you I'm competitive (not taking into account the fact we have fantastic medical benefits).
When you move, most companies will exceed your current salary (otherwise why move, right?) and it's this practice I'm really focusing in on. You can see it on their CVs when they've had 5 jobs in 5 years. They're trying to force what they see as their FMV up. The reality is often that the company that they go to is paying them slightly more than they really want to and that is frequently reflected in the next pay raise, which then causes them to move on again to bump it up a bit more.
Of course, this is all just my opinion. I think it's best to stick a job out for a while, prove your worth and get rewarded for it rather than jumping around. It is what has worked for me and it's a trait I try and look for in my staff.
exactly. Also quitters also look bad on management (surprise, they have their own careers to worry about). pretty sure they get scored badly too for every 'issue' raised by subordinates so they hate whiners too
I wouldn't agree that their salary was necessarily under FMV but rather under their perceived self value. I happen to know what my competitors pay and can assure you I'm competitive (not taking into account the fact we have fantastic medical benefits).
The problem you would have is while I am older and value my terrific Health Insurance plan, to a 20 something, that employee logically wants a less deluxe plan with a higher salary offseting the cost difference of deluxe vs adequate. Neither the older nor younger employee is wrong in their view, as there is a logical reason each would put more stock in different things.
The problem you would have is while I am older and value my terrific Health Insurance plan, to a 20 something, that employee logically wants a less deluxe plan with a higher salary offseting the cost difference of deluxe vs adequate. Neither the older nor younger employee is wrong in their view, as there is a logical reason each would put more stock in different things.
I agree, benefits are a whole other issue. We offer the best medical we can. I understand that the younger employees may be less likely to appreciate its true value but I think it's a very important aspect and it's a non-negotiable aspect. The plans we have are open to all employees, there'd be nothing to stop them saying they'll take a lower cost plan to up the salary and then taking a higher cost, better plan anyway.
You aren't entitled to anything. If your employee leaves you for a competitor that's just how the market works. Give them a reason to stay, or someone else will. LOL!
I agree, benefits are a whole other issue. We offer the best medical we can. I understand that the younger employees may be less likely to appreciate its true value but I think it's a very important aspect and it's a non-negotiable aspect. The plans we have are open to all employees, there'd be nothing to stop them saying they'll take a lower cost plan to up the salary and then taking a higher cost, better plan anyway.
I wish H/R were less lazy-we should be offering cafeteria benefit plans, where an employee gets X dollars to spend, and chooses benefits cafeteria style, each with a cost. That would mean, of course, the single employee would have more money to spend on other benefits than those with family medical plans, but since they get the same $, it would be far more equitable. The 20 something might choose your least costly medical plan,that is fine, he'll have more to spend elsewhere.
You aren't entitled to anything. If your employee leaves you for a competitor that's just how the market works. Give them a reason to stay, or someone else will. LOL!
There are so many jobs especially in science one cannot get the experience they want without some sort of job specific training. Colleges teach organic chemistry and general chemistry but they do not teach polyurethane formulations, or paint chemistry. They teach software but not your proprietary system. By eliminating training and internships they are creating their own shortage.
I agree. I think when the economy picks up and the boomers retire there's going to be a shortage for a lot of these positions, and they're going to have to pay more for people and/or provide more training.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
As for candidates quitting after getting the training, that means that the company does not properly reevaluate the employee's new worth to the company. Most people quit for another position because they are not properly valued or bad management. Fix those and companies won't have to worry about it.
Yep. They can start them off at a modest rate, train them, and then pay them more when they're able to provide more value to the company. If they won't compensate them fairly after they gain the experience and training then they shouldn't be upset or surprised when if they bolt afterwards.
Companys are not willing to "invest" a bunch of money into training just to have the employee take that training and quit as soon as they have the new skills. You should not expect to get paid top dollar for you time AND get free training. You are paid for the value you bring to the orgainization. A new employee with no skills is not worth as much as an employee who can put in a full day of productive work.
I would bet that if companys could sue employees for reimbursement of training if they quit before working for x number of months or years they would be more willing to take a chance on them.
A few points:
1) The days of employees getting training at Company A and then hopping to Company B are long gone. This is not the 1990's anymore. People are lucky to have a job, and, quite frankly, job requirements these days are so laughably narrow that your experience at Company A probably wouldn't count for at Company B.
2) Nobody asked to be paid top dollar, but paying people absurdly low wages (with no job security) is also not acceptable. It's funny how if employers ask for low wages, that's okay since they make more money, but if employees ask for decent wages, it's somehow bad... because workers shouldn't be making money.
3) Employers can already set up such deals where they'll pay an employee back for training provided they stay with the company X number of years afterwards. I've seen that set up in various companies. The problem is that most places these days are just plain to cheap to train anyone - they don't care if you have the skills, if the training would help, etc. They just don't want to spend money.
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