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Old 12-07-2013, 09:42 AM
 
6,741 posts, read 5,991,943 times
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Automated warehouses are just the beginning. We're about to see an explosion of robotic applications. The Raspberry Pi and Arduino projects are low cost examples of robotics and automation tools that are within the reach of everybody today.

Software is the key to all of this, so I would advise young people to learn it. I think math, science, history, literature, and foreign languages are also vital and everyone should study them. (Of course, I'm a bit of a throwback.)

Raising the minimum wage is counter productive and will merely hasten the automation of more jobs. The minimum wage is not $7.25/hour. It's $0.50/hour because that's what it costs to get the work done in the lowest wage region, and they will also build the robots over there.

Instead of focusing on forcing a "living wage" which will merely cause more unemployment, we should be making the country more business-friendly, i.e. lower taxes and regulatory burdens on start-ups and small businesses, and make it attractive to hire people in this country.

I think we should also be encouraging domestic energy production, which will bring down the cost of domestic manufacturing and create thousands more jobs. There's lots we can do to stave off the 30% unemployment that robotics is threatening to cause.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 24,005,598 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Automated warehouses are just the beginning. We're about to see an explosion of robotic applications. The Raspberry Pi and Arduino projects are low cost examples of robotics and automation tools that are within the reach of everybody today.

Software is the key to all of this, so I would advise young people to learn it. I think math, science, history, literature, and foreign languages are also vital and everyone should study them. (Of course, I'm a bit of a throwback.)

Raising the minimum wage is counter productive and will merely hasten the automation of more jobs. The minimum wage is not $7.25/hour. It's $0.50/hour because that's what it costs to get the work done in the lowest wage region, and they will also build the robots over there.

Instead of focusing on forcing a "living wage" which will merely cause more unemployment, we should be making the country more business-friendly, i.e. lower taxes and regulatory burdens on start-ups and small businesses, and make it attractive to hire people in this country.

I think we should also be encouraging domestic energy production, which will bring down the cost of domestic manufacturing and create thousands more jobs. There's lots we can do to stave off the 30% unemployment that robotics is threatening to cause.
How isn't it attractive to hire people in America besides the laws related to discrimination in hiring process? A lot of posters on C-D have already disagreed with many of your regulator burdens because of necessity (ACA not withstanding.) Personally, besides the 20% minority laws I don't disagree with employment law.

I agree we should encourage domestic energy production whether it localized oil and gas drilling or more green energy. Arizona is booming with solar energy but it is one of a few areas that can really do it.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:08 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 20,018,090 times
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Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
How isn't it attractive to hire people in America besides the laws related to discrimination in hiring process? .
Tremendous employer paid payroll taxes, benefits, etc.

Typically an employee paid 60k gets a 45k net paycheck/year, and the employer cost is at minimum 90k. A 2 to 1 ratio at best case scenario.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 24,005,598 times
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Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Tremendous employer paid payroll taxes, benefits, etc.

Typically an employee paid 60k gets a 45k net paycheck/year, and the employer cost is at minimum 90k. A 2 to 1 ratio at best case scenario.
I said hiring laws, benefits isn't law (besides Obamacare forcing healthcare (something many bigger employers actually did offer even if it was junk policies.))
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 37,123,429 times
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Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Personally, besides the 20% minority laws I don't disagree with employment law.

Uh, what/where are these?
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 24,005,598 times
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Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Uh, what/where are these?
The law that 20% of your workforce must be a some sort of minority to prevent discrimination in the hiring process.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: South Texas
4,248 posts, read 4,183,660 times
Reputation: 6052
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Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Exactly, it will be a negative externality that would be likely to cripple the economy. I cannot find the exact post but somebody posted the story of the frog and the scorpion where the scorpion stings the frog (and killing it) while the frog tries to bring the scorpion ashore. In this case the scorpion is companies stinging the frog which is society because it is in their nature (to get more profits.) My thoughts are that the rise in machines will cause an adverse impact that will lead to people not having income, let alone disposable income.
That isn't the best metaphor to use, because it views society (whose members work in business) as a single collective (a scorpion) instead of a bunch of individuals (an ant colony).

But with that said, you got the cast of characters completely backwards.


The frog is business, which keeps society (the scorpion) afloat by swimming (creating value, not redistributing it - oops, did I just shoot a hole in your "static pie" theory? ). The increasing regulations, tax burden, and labor costs, (relative to market prices of the goods sold /services rendered) are the venom with which society stings the frog.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:50 PM
 
Location: South Texas
4,248 posts, read 4,183,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
(besides Obamacare forcing healthcare (something many bigger employers actually did offer even if it was junk policies.))
Who are you - or Obama - to determine whether or not a policy you (or he) doesn't own or write is considered "junk?"
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:52 PM
 
Location: South Texas
4,248 posts, read 4,183,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
The law that 20% of your workforce must be a some sort of minority to prevent discrimination in the hiring process.
Those laws themselves mandate discrimination.

And laws don't prevent jack (discrimination will either happen or it won't, regardless of the law), but they can cause the presentation of the appearance of non-discrimination.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:55 PM
 
Location: South Texas
4,248 posts, read 4,183,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
How isn't it attractive to hire people in America besides the laws related to discrimination in hiring process?
Cost.

If hiring and retaining American workers is less costly than installing and maintaining robots, then hiring human workers will be the more attractive of the two options.

If the cost of of installing and maintaining robots is less than the cost of hiring and retaining human workers - and this is the current trajectory, with unskilled workers demanding higher pay than their labor is worth - then robots will become more attractive than human labor.
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