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One could not detain me in a room, doing nothing for $15 an hour.
People deserve a living wage and $15 would be the least amount of money one would need to be self supporting in most regions. In some, it would be barely enough.
You must not be reading.
I am telling you the personal wage earned in TN about 100 miles S. of Nashville (and the temp labor Manpower was in Nashville). $3.60 to $5 per hour.
I am then using the CPI calculator to update that data.
Your math or logic is flawed. I suppose the later - that you are debating against a point I never made.
Let me make it very simple.
I was there
I worked.
I made $5 an hour
It was 1973/74
I was in the lowest position (laborer)
I make just under $20/hr and I find that reasonable given age, skills and qualifications, but I cannot afford to live on my own unless I wanted to live paycheck by paycheck with no savings in the city I am. So in a way I feel that I should be making more.
Truth be told everyone needs to be making more money, including minimum wage. But the lower and middle class all need pay raises. We are the groups that has seen stagnant wage growth yet we are seeing record productivity numbers and a giant GDP. That clearly is not getting to us...
As far as the housing argument goes, make these laws:
1) You can only own one property OR your second property being subjected to a huge, huge tax. Something needs to be done to curb people using real estate to grow their finances so people can get shelter which we all agree is a basic need. Many food staples have caps because they are considered needs, why not housing?
2) Only American citizens can OWN (own, you can still rent) land in the United States.
3) Ban services like AirBnB from main residences (exceptions for guest houses or ADUs).
That should fix that real quick. If you can make the tax policy so unfriendly for people who own more than one property, then that opens so much more supply so people don't have to rent for the rest of their life if they don't have to. It also gets foreign billionaires out of our real estate market. Also limit AirBnB to accessory units will still give housing supply without interfering with the rental market in a significant way, though as long as AirBnB exists it will interfere with the housing market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
I feel that as a 22 year old, with no kids, no debt, a college degree, numerous certifications, no jail record, and a near perfect credit score, I should be able to afford and save some cash at the end of the day. Really I don't think striving to be able to pay for shelter and save money isn't asking for a whole lot. Some people can see their money grow for miles, why can't I see mine grow an inch?
At some point we have to stop looking at people like they are robots, and start looking at them like they are humans again. If you have to spend the majority of your life performing a series of tasks, those tasks should be able to sustain the life you use to do those tasks. They should be able to get you into at least a somewhat financially stable place.
In theory, people should be able to live on the current minimum wages in their area. But they can't, because of rising rents, groceries, utilities, gas, and other basic expenses. Everyone has to market towards the wealthy techie from Silicon Valley, right? No one wants to market to all these poor folk. We gotta make everything "luxury".
To me the raise to $15 argument is less about just more $$$ but a better wages to expenses ratio. People working minimum wage wouldn't care if rents and gas went down. Especially rent as that is most people's biggest expense.
If the market wants to pay people X per hour, then the market should also give options for those making X per hour to live somewhere. Humans are living beings that consume things and have a certain standard of living, like a roof over their head and maybe some basic heating. But that's the thing, they won't. So if we won't raise the wage, what can we do to bring expenses down?
I take it you are 22 years old and living at home. How much rent do you pay your parents?
I'm curious.
If minimum wage was raised by $5 (which is about 50% what it is now), what about all those who are making $15 an hour now with college degrees in entry level specialized positions? They won't get a $7.50/hour raise. They will be making the same as those in positions that do not require special skills or education. Is this fair?
I'm very open to hearing differing opinions without getting into an argument.
What do you think YOU'RE worth?
I'd like this to be an open discussion with no attacks or party-blaming (dems/reps)
In the current economy at about $9-10 an hour as minimum wage, I'd say I'm probably worth $21 an hour.. With a specialized masters and a license to practice therapy. Second year out of school.
Every worker has a right to a living wage. Adjusted for inflation, that would be about $21/hour today. In this country, people who put in an honest day's labor should be able not only to survive, but to thrive.
The important thing is, can you pay the rent? The recommended level is 30% of pay but in practice it could be 35 to 50 percent.
Barely and only because of Section 8 but I need to really live life too. I get depressed just sitting at home (maybe not as much as when I was unemployed but still do since my job doesn't give me mental stimulation and the energy of people can get overwhelming) Even disregarding my emotional turmoil, I think most everyone needs a vacation (I said most because some people hate vacations for some reason, in that case you do you)...preferably once a year. Sure it's not the hierarchy of needs but it is important because if you don't explore new places your mind becomes stagnant. For many people the only way to learn is to go out and interact with the world.
If you lived with my mom though you would really need a vacation then because I sit here with clutter and it's no wonder I'm so depressed all the time. After vacation we could start fresh and possibly be more motivated.
I'm going anyway. I don't care. I already payed for the hotel but it would be nice if I didn't have to worry about my spending while I'm doing it. It's crazy to me that you could pay for things that don't even matter like a big screen tv more easily than you could to go out and explore.
I also need to learn how to drive if it's not too late for me and I might need to pay for a better teacher. It's not healthy at my age to bum rides from people at least for me personally. It makes me feel like an invalid when I have to ask my boss to take me home or pick me up.
There might be some other things too (like the car payment which I already mentioned) but those are my main concerns at the moment.
I know I could get a second job but I don't think I could handle that second commitment so I try to look for feasible ways for me to make extra cash and come up with nothing. I already do surveys and things like that. It's not that profitable.
One time I was working 7 days in a row recently and got no overtime because it wasn't in the same week. It was so hard on me.
Barely and only because of Section 8 but I need to really live life too. I get depressed just sitting at home (maybe not as much as when I was unemployed but still do since my job doesn't give me mental stimulation and the energy of people can get overwhelming) Even disregarding my emotional turmoil, I think most everyone needs a vacation (I said most because some people hate vacations for some reason, in that case you do you)...preferably once a year. Sure it's not the hierarchy of needs but it is important because if you don't explore new places your mind becomes stagnant. For many people the only way to learn is to go out and interact with the world.
If you lived with my mom though you would really need a vacation then because I sit here with clutter and it's no wonder I'm so depressed all the time. After vacation we could start fresh and possibly be more motivated.
I'm going anyway. I don't care. I already payed for the hotel but it would be nice if I didn't have to worry about my spending while I'm doing it. It's crazy to me that you could pay for things that don't even matter like a big screen tv more easily than you could to go out and explore.
I also need to learn how to drive if it's not too late for me and I might need to pay for a better teacher. It's not healthy at my age to bum rides from people at least for me personally. It makes me feel like an invalid when I have to ask my boss to take me home or pick me up.
There might be some other things too (like the car payment which I already mentioned) but those are my main concerns at the moment.
I know I could get a second job but I don't think I could handle that second commitment so I try to look for feasible ways for me to make extra cash and come up with nothing. I already do surveys and things like that. It's not that profitable.
One time I was working 7 days in a row recently and got no overtime because it wasn't in the same week. It was so hard on me.
Wait a second, your on section 8 and you get to take vacations? You don't have a problem with that? You can't even afford to pay your own rent and feel that life is too short not too take a vacation once in a while. Most everyone needs a vacation? Really? The most I have had in the way of a vacation is a weekend gettaway with my wife. It was two days long. We have taken our kids to Disneyland. I don't even count those as vacations. I have not had a week off from work in 25 years. I don't even know what that is like. In the last 7 years time off has been a day here or there to work on our home.
Since you mention that your section 8 rental is too cluttered maybe you need to take a vacation and de-clutter your home.
Let me tell you something. People that can afford vacations have every right to take them. People that can pay their own way have every right to take a vacation. Why should someone that can not afford to pay market value for a rental get to take one?
You mention working only one job and your mind is going stagnant because you are sitting around your moms place all the time. The solution is to get another job. Work more.
I recently read a story about Mark Cuban. he built a massive net worth, mostly luck as Yahoo bought his company making him a Billionaire. As far as I know the company was a bust for Yahoo.
What Cuban said is that if he lost it all and had to start over again he would do two things: 1. Get a job as a bartender. He did that before he was wealthy. and 2. Get a sales job where he could make massive commission. The bartender job would pay the bills and the income from the sales job would fund his next venture. He is positive that he could build a multi million dollar net worth by doing those two things. He doubts he would build a billion dollar net worth because for him it was luck that Yahoo came calling.
The point is that to get success we need to work more than we are working. We need to work at least two jobs when we are down. Maybe a job and a small business. Cuban's idea would be to have two jobs and build some savings to start the next venture. Many people have a problem funding their own ventures so this seems to be a good path to do that.
Five years ago I was taking the bus into work. I did that for about a year. I had a car that had over 140,000 miles on it and needed some transmission work. At the time my wife and I did not want a car payment. The bus in our area worked well for us. While riding the bus you get to observe people. Over time I noticed one guy, in his 50's I think. In the morning he was on his way to work. I would see him every so often on the same bus. One day I saw him heading back at the end of the day. He did not continue on though. He stopped to go to his second job. I noticed then that he had changed his shirt and was on to a second place of employment. A week went by and I saw him again. I was able to ask him about that. Told me he had always had multiple jobs to make ends meet.
This is what adults do. They don't ask for money they are not owed. They look at the cost to live and do what they have to do to get the bills paid.
Wait a second, your on section 8 and you get to take vacations? You don't have a problem with that? You can't even afford to pay your own rent and feel that life is too short not too take a vacation once in a while. Most everyone needs a vacation? Really? The most I have had in the way of a vacation is a weekend gettaway with my wife. It was two days long. We have taken our kids to Disneyland. I don't even count those as vacations. I have not had a week off from work in 25 years. I don't even know what that is like. In the last 7 years time off has been a day here or there to work on our home.
Since you mention that your section 8 rental is too cluttered maybe you need to take a vacation and de-clutter your home.
Let me tell you something. People that can afford vacations have every right to take them. People that can pay their own way have every right to take a vacation. Why should someone that can not afford to pay market value for a rental get to take one?
You mention working only one job and your mind is going stagnant because you are sitting around your moms place all the time. The solution is to get another job. Work more.
I recently read a story about Mark Cuban. he built a massive net worth, mostly luck as Yahoo bought his company making him a Billionaire. As far as I know the company was a bust for Yahoo.
What Cuban said is that if he lost it all and had to start over again he would do two things: 1. Get a job as a bartender. He did that before he was wealthy. and 2. Get a sales job where he could make massive commission. The bartender job would pay the bills and the income from the sales job would fund his next venture. He is positive that he could build a multi million dollar net worth by doing those two things. He doubts he would build a billion dollar net worth because for him it was luck that Yahoo came calling.
The point is that to get success we need to work more than we are working. We need to work at least two jobs when we are down. Maybe a job and a small business. Cuban's idea would be to have two jobs and build some savings to start the next venture. Many people have a problem funding their own ventures so this seems to be a good path to do that.
Five years ago I was taking the bus into work. I did that for about a year. I had a car that had over 140,000 miles on it and needed some transmission work. At the time my wife and I did not want a car payment. The bus in our area worked well for us. While riding the bus you get to observe people. Over time I noticed one guy, in his 50's I think. In the morning he was on his way to work. I would see him every so often on the same bus. One day I saw him heading back at the end of the day. He did not continue on though. He stopped to go to his second job. I noticed then that he had changed his shirt and was on to a second place of employment. A week went by and I saw him again. I was able to ask him about that. Told me he had always had multiple jobs to make ends meet.
This is what adults do. They don't ask for money they are not owed. They look at the cost to live and do what they have to do to get the bills paid.
That's what I mean I'm not asking for something for nothing. I would love more profitable extra work but not an actual second job. Like if I could drive I would be fine with doing Uber but an actual second job I don't know how I would do that. The schedules would conflict. My job is an odd schedule. Unless I mark it on the calendar to request to be off I never know when I'm working so I have to check periodically. What happens if both jobs need me the same day?
I'm also very loyal to a fault so I can only commit myself to one company at a time unless it's a side gig like I said. When you overthink like I do you can only deal with one commitment when it comes to making money.
Maybe you don't need one as much as I do but it sounds like you could really use one if you hadn't taken one in so long.
Because I work too hard and I have been put in positions where I was taken advantage of (I have PTSD because of it) because I've been worrying about money. I also just recently got out of that position so I definitely deserve it now for standing up for myself and not letting it happen anymore. Plus 295 more dollars should already be mine because I was scammed and I never got the money back for it. So that is what I get for trying to make more money and not be so dependent on others (it was an investment scam)
After all the suffering I have endured since I was 10 years old I deserve to be able to have more opportunities to earn more money without making another commitment so I can do the things that are important to me. Some people can work for two jobs..great for them. They must have a simple enough mind to just be able to choose which job is more important if they conflict with each other.
Honestly I would love to just stay at home and de-clutter. I fantasize about taking a big trash bag and just throw a crap ton away (I'm the type to want to throw away my birth certificate if you let me no kidding. I might have stuff that I keep for sentimental reasons or practical reasons but I hate keeping a lot of paper) The issue is my mom won't let me. About 80 or 90 percent of the clutter is my mom's. She won't let me throw anything away. She will even keep ketchup packets in the fridge even though you get them for free anytime you buy food out. When my boyfriend and I try to throw something away sometimes she will want to look in the trash and get it. Anytime I try to convince her she doesn't need something we fight and someone ends up crying. I just can't. I often fantasize about moving another state and leaving her behind but I think she would get lonely and I don't know how I'd make it on my own anyway as a neurodivergent person.
I'm not the type to be able to own my own business..even just counting my overthinking alone. It would never get off the ground because I'd be too indecisive to do anything. This is why I have a job working for someone else. They tell me what to do. I still overthink but at least it's not costing me money doing so.
I've thought about loads of ideas but my brain always thinks of a reason why it won't work. You say small business though. Doing what? Selling stuff? I'm not good at selling things. When I sold my ps2 on Amazon I even screwed that up because I paid too much for postage so I didn't get as much profit as I could have.
Last edited by Nickchick; 12-04-2017 at 01:32 PM..
Like if I could drive I would be fine with doing Uber but an actual second job I don't know how I would do that.
if you could drive, you could get a higher paying job by widening your search...
no one drives for uber as a primary job, you'd need a fairly new car for that and you'd be paying the car note
Quote:
When you overthink like I do you can only deal with one commitment
and when you can only do one thing at a time, employers want people who can multi-task and walk/talk at the same time
Quote:
Because I work too hard and I have put myself in positions to be taken advantage of
you saying the rest of us don't work hard and get taken advantage of? Sure, I don't mind working longer hours to the advantage of my employer, but I expect to be paid for it, and they pay for it... there is no "advantage" here, I get what I want, they get what they want.
if you could drive, you could get a higher paying job by widening your search...
no one drives for uber as a primary job, you'd need a fairly new car for that and you'd be paying the car note
and when you can only do one thing at a time, employers want people who can multi-task and walk/talk at the same time
you saying the rest of us don't work hard and get taken advantage of? Sure, I don't mind working longer hours to the advantage of my employer, but I expect to be paid for it, and they pay for it... there is no "advantage" here, I get what I want, they get what they want.
That too. Too bad I'm not sure I will ever learn because I can't seem to even pass the permit test anymore. I would love to be able to drive but I don't know how to accomplish it. I need someone to explain it to me in a way that my ND brain will understand not expect me to memorize because my brain's too far gone to do that.
Okay you obviously posted before I edited my post but no I'm not saying that people don't get taken advantage of but many people don't get PTSD and have had suicidal thoughts because of it. I have had panic attacks in the shower of all places.
It has nothing to do with working an actual job. The fact is someone was giving me money in exchange for hurting me and because I couldn't get hired by anyone at the time it was easy for them to do. They got what they wanted and I got what I needed but the consequence was they took my emotional health with them. Now I realize a vacation will not change what happened but it will help me feel better about it. I spent over 6 years trying to get a job out of college and you're telling me this is the best I can do after that unless I'm capable of working another job?
Plus you have to consider what job would it be? If it was another customer service job no way..that's too much energy on a regular basis. Somehow it doesn't bother me when I have gone on vacation, like I might get tired later after I've been to a concert and need to crash for two days but maybe that's because people are generally happy when they're doing things like that. When I'm serving them they probably had negative energy that my body consumed. Combine that with my negative energy and we've got a recipe for me panicking at work. When I was working those 7 days in a row I felt so fatigued out of nowhere that I felt like dying.
I used to do a paid to post program and that was great but last I checked they didn't have much opportunities for me to post.
It's not that I can't multi-task. You have to consider that I used to do several pocket change sites simultaneously. I just can't take on two formal jobs at one time because it's a commitment. A commitment that I would fear letting someone down over.
The only thing I can think of is maybe I could take on the pet store. They said they don't have much hours anyway when I tried to apply to them before and maybe they'll hire me now that I have a job already and it wouldn't feel as much of a commitment that way. I'm still not sure though because it's still not a side gig but I can walk to it also and I did really want to work there.
Last edited by Nickchick; 12-04-2017 at 02:41 PM..
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