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Old 12-10-2017, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
13,480 posts, read 8,378,016 times
Reputation: 25948

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejhere View Post
Is that even legal for the employer to do that? Hasn't anyone complained about it?
Unfortunately, if the employer calls this an "internship" then it's somewhat legal.


There are legal guidelines for internships, (example: they must resemble training is one of them) but most employers thumb their nose at those guidelines.


It will get worse if people continue to give free work away. Those people should be named and shamed, not just the employers but the idiots willing to do free work. They make it harder for everyone else.
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:46 AM
 
Location: broke leftist craphole Illizuela
10,326 posts, read 17,425,894 times
Reputation: 20337
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejhere View Post
Is that even legal for the employer to do that? Hasn't anyone complained about it?
No and if any of them complain the owner will be fined up the wazoo.
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:18 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
35,060 posts, read 31,284,584 times
Reputation: 47519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_M View Post
Don't like it? Don't work there.

Employment is a negotiated contract, if you're a bottom tier person who's easily replaced, then you have little negotiation room. Most don't even bother to TRY and negotiate though (maybe for pay, maybe). I got my wife to negotiate her current job, 3 days a week, full time benefits (though PTO is pre-rated to match hours worked), no call, etc... she's the only one with that kind of schedule in a department of about 20. She's also the only one to ask.... and has a higher education degree.

There's also a stunning number of people who don't understand the whole exempt/non-exempt employment arrangement. It's not a flat 40 hours for exempt, it's work until the work is completed, which should average out to 40 hours. I've fought tooth and nail to stay non-exempt at every position because I want to be paid for each hour spent working, and I have succeeded 100% of the time.

Bottom line though is that if you don't like the terms, ask for different terms or find somewhere else with terms that are agreeable. Obviously, no one will give you something for nothing. If you simply can't find someone else that offers agreeable terms, then work yourself. Expect 50~80 hours a week and often pay way lower than minimum wage for the first few years, but smart and persistent folk can grow that in ~5 years.
Most salaried office type workers are not employed under any sort of contract. I'm a full-time employee at a large employer in my area. I'm under no contract for duration of employment, wages, or any aspect of the job. It is at will and can be terminated by either side at any time for any reason or for no reason at all.

I've worked as a W-2, no benefit "contractor" through a staffing agency before. Those jobs are the first to be cut if times get tough, and you have none of the protections an employee would get. The company can fire you for "not a good fit" and the contract would unlikely be violated.

Most of us cannot negotiate being exempt or non-exempt. There are about twenty people with different job levels reporting to my director. This is a large organization. People are hired into levels based on their experience and education. All of us are exempt. You're not going to be able to buck the system in that regard.
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:57 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,074 posts, read 10,703,398 times
Reputation: 8798
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Unfortunately, if the employer calls this an "internship" then it's somewhat legal. There are legal guidelines for internships, (example: they must resemble training is one of them) but most employers thumb their nose at those guidelines. It will get worse if people continue to give free work away. Those people should be named and shamed, not just the employers but the idiots willing to do free work. They make it harder for everyone else.
This is key. The law says that interns are never supposed to work unsupervised, and the company is never supposed to directly benefit from the work of the intern. As long as companies can get away with breaking the law, then there effectively is no law and companies can do whatever they want, as long as someone is willing to do what they want them to do.

It is going to get worse. A recent report by McKinsey & Co. posited that a third of existing employment in the United States will be gone in a dozen years due to automation. It has been several years since the level of job contraction due to technology exceeded the level of job creation due to technology. McKinsey's research indicates that that was not just a pastoral transition from a positive trend to a negative trend, but rather was an inflection point from a time with sharp increases in employment to a time with sharp decreases in employment. In other words, as fast as technology created jobs in the 1980s and 1990s, that's how fast technology will destroy jobs in 2020s and 2030s.

How long until someone with thirty years of experience will be expected to agree to a six month unpaid internship before being hired for a paying job? Already the days of going from one permanent position to another are gone for many workers, with the ascendancy of contract-to-hire as the main means of getting jobs at companies in certain sectors.
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Old 12-11-2017, 10:34 AM
 
Location: USA
18,491 posts, read 9,157,203 times
Reputation: 8523
OP:

This is America. Workers have never had any rights, except for a brief period from FDR to Reagan. Things are back to normal, where workers are at the mercy of their employers.

If you want to be part of a civilized society where there is a balance of power between labor and capital, go to Europe.
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Old 12-11-2017, 10:45 AM
 
Location: South Florida
5,020 posts, read 7,448,079 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by historyfan View Post
you & yours should consider finding employment in a different region.
This!
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Old 12-11-2017, 01:37 PM
 
Location: broke leftist craphole Illizuela
10,326 posts, read 17,425,894 times
Reputation: 20337
One restaurant that pulled the work for free got their butt handed to them by the DOL.

Department of Labor cracks down on unpaid restaurant internships | Restaurant Hospitality
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:28 PM
 
Location: USA
18,491 posts, read 9,157,203 times
Reputation: 8523
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
One restaurant that pulled the work for free got their butt handed to them by the DOL.

Department of Labor cracks down on unpaid restaurant internships | Restaurant Hospitality
I’m sure that Trump will put an end to that kind of “onerous” regulation.
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Old 12-12-2017, 06:50 AM
 
Location: American West
1,082 posts, read 833,083 times
Reputation: 2092
Quote:
Originally Posted by brklyn2007 View Post
Unpaid work is illegal. Period. Nobody should be working for free. Unpaid internships are supposed to be for education purposes ONLY and are not for the benefit of the employer. Anybody who tells you otherwise is lying to you. Don't waste your time with a company that expects you to work for free.
Well said and absolutely agree.
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Old 03-31-2018, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Houston
126 posts, read 96,510 times
Reputation: 413
Free labor is a pretty good deal for employers. I guess they figure some people are so stupid and/or desperate that they want anything to put on their resume, even if it's making copies or some other menial task.

Personally, I'd work at Walmart before I'd work an unpaid internship. At least you're paid for your work at Walmart.
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