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I'd describe the lower tier of employees (low-level managers) at my company as unmotivated, unambitious, and complacent. These are 40-something folks with no education beyond a high school diploma who are "grateful" to have a job, and thus have no other real desires other than to keep their job. As far as I know, they do not seem to communicate with upper management unless they are together during a company function.
I, on the other hand, am a 20-something college grad seeking out opportunities to better myself on a regular basis. By this, I mean that I'm talking to the upper management team on a more consistent basis to learn about any new opportunities with our company. For the most part, this has paid dividends. I've seen my salary increase by more than $10k/yr over the past year and a half as a result of increased responsibilities.
What I'm wondering is which type of employee do you think employers like the most? Do you think they prefer the ones that do their job and stay out of their hair? Or do you think they prefer the ones that are consistently asking about new opportunities? Just as an FYI, I'm not emailing them every day about new opportunities. It's more like every four or five months, or whenever something else comes along and it's essential that I communicate with them. Do you think that they might see me as a thorn in their side? Or do you think that most employers prefer employees who consistently want to learn about new opportunities?
First off, I think your appraisal of the lower level managers may be a bit harsh. Sometimes people know when they've reached that glass ceiling and that, due to the lack of a degree or other factors, no matter what they do or how much they work they won't go any higher. It's very hard to stay motivated and ambitious once you've gotten to that point.
Now to answer your question - I can only speak from my perspective but in my experience most managers will very early on be able to spot the real go-getters as opposed to the less ambitious prospects. There really isn't anything wrong with employees who are content to stay in the lower level positions as long as they remain productive. Not everyone is cut out for or even capable of being a leader. But if you are one of the the management prospects then there is nothing wrong with making that clear from the get-go. You do have to maintain that balance between letting people know that you are interested in moving up and being labeled as a brown-noser, but you should be able to figure out where to draw the line.
Good luck to you and I hope you are able to achieve your goals.
First off, I think your appraisal of the lower level managers may be a bit harsh. Sometimes people know when they've reached that glass ceiling and that, due to the lack of a degree or other factors, no matter what they do or how much they work they won't go any higher. It's very hard to stay motivated and ambitious once you've gotten to that point.
Before you get this impression that I'm some snobby, young punk, allow me to elaborate. I realize there are ambitious people without college degrees. I'm not insinuating that w/o a degree, you're just some lazy, unambitious bum. My description is unique to this group. You'd just have to meet the people to see what I'm talking about. Their mentality is "stay under the radar, and you'll be fine". In other words, if they leave upper management alone, upper management will leave them alone.
A woman co-worker once told me that she wouldn't take a particular position if it were offered to her because she's content with where she's at now. She went on to say that she believes she gets paid well for a woman. The pay scale for her position is $12-$14/hr. So take that however you'd like.
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Originally Posted by janetvj
Now to answer your question - I can only speak from my perspective but in my experience most managers will very early on be able to spot the real go-getters as opposed to the less ambitious prospects. There really isn't anything wrong with employees who are content to stay in the lower level positions as long as they remain productive. Not everyone is cut out for or even capable of being a leader. But if you are one of the the management prospects then there is nothing wrong with making that clear from the get-go. You do have to maintain that balance between letting people know that you are interested in moving up and being labeled as a brown-noser, but you should be able to figure out where to draw the line.
Good luck to you and I hope you are able to achieve your goals.
Right, and as I explained to another poster here, I'm absolutely NOT trying to be a brown noser. I'm asking about new opportunities, because I want to better myself and move up in life. If they end up liking my attitude, that's just an added bonus.
There's nothing wrong with staying under the radar and it's often the right thing to do.
Younger idealistic ambitious folks often equate staying under the radar with being a slacker or fearful and that's not necessarily true. Many experienced workers have learned that sticking your neck out, drawing attention to yourself, can bite you in the tush.
I know many 40-somethings (and others) who just want a regular predictable job. They still have kids at home, elderly parents to take care of and they have no aspirations to add to their stress level by changing jobs, moving up the ladder, taking on more responsibility.
Some of these folks have experienced layoffs. Having been laid off in the past really makes you want to stay under the radar at subsequent jobs.
Companies need Indians. We all can't be Chiefs.
Probably the best thing you can do is to not let on that you think you are better than your co-workers.
One other thing - this may not be an issue everywhere but where I used to work the chain of command was a really big deal. It was a huge mistake to circumvent one's immediate supervisor and go directly to someone in upper management.
If this is the case where you work I suspect it will be made clear to you early on. If you are also unfortunate enough to have an immediate supervisor who is either non-responsive or does not follow through on things, then you may be able to get around it by copying a manager in the appropriate section when you inquire with your supervisor. If the inquiry is about additional training, for example, you would send the correspondence to your supervisor but copy the manager of training in HR.
There's nothing wrong with staying under the radar and it's often the right thing to do.
Younger idealistic ambitious folks often equate staying under the radar with being a slacker or fearful and that's not necessarily true. Many experienced workers have learned that sticking your neck out, drawing attention to yourself, can bite you in the tush.
I know many 40-somethings (and others) who just want a regular predictable job. They still have kids at home, elderly parents to take care of and they have no aspirations to add to their stress level by changing jobs, moving up the ladder, taking on more responsibility.
Some of these folks have experienced layoffs. Having been laid off in the past really makes you want to stay under the radar at subsequent jobs.
Companies need Indians. We all can't be Chiefs.
Probably the best thing you can do is to not let on that you think you are better than your co-workers.
It sounds like you probably consider yourself one of those who "stays under the radar", particularly because of the strong case you're trying to make for them. Let me reiterate that I don't think any less of these people. And I DO NOT think I am better than any of them. In fact, my post has nothing to do with them at all. This is certainly not a "bash my co-workers" rant.
My question is whether or not you guys think my employer would look at me as a thorn in their side because of my tendency to be proactive in looking for new opportunities to better myself. Do you honestly think in today's job market, that employers like that their employees are unmotivated and rely on predictability and stability as opposed to change and progress? Or are you saying that because that's what you do and you took my post as an insult to your philosophy? Call me young, naive, and idealistic, but if this is the way of the world, then I think that's pretty sad.
I'd describe the lower tier of employees (low-level managers) at my company as unmotivated, unambitious, and complacent. These are 40-something folks with no education beyond a high school diploma who are "grateful" to have a job, and thus have no other real desires other than to keep their job. As far as I know, they do not seem to communicate with upper management unless they are together during a company function.
I, on the other hand, am a 20-something college grad seeking out opportunities to better myself on a regular basis. By this, I mean that I'm talking to the upper management team on a more consistent basis to learn about any new opportunities with our company. For the most part, this has paid dividends. I've seen my salary increase by more than $10k/yr over the past year and a half as a result of increased responsibilities.
What I'm wondering is which type of employee do you think employers like the most? Do you think they prefer the ones that do their job and stay out of their hair? Or do you think they prefer the ones that are consistently asking about new opportunities? Just as an FYI, I'm not emailing them every day about new opportunities. It's more like every four or five months, or whenever something else comes along and it's essential that I communicate with them. Do you think that they might see me as a thorn in their side? Or do you think that most employers prefer employees who consistently want to learn about new opportunities?
Thanks!
I'll bet they can run circles around you at work.....they just don't see the need that you seem to need to show off....
Trust me, the upper management knows how good they are....
which type of employee do you think employers like the most? Do you think they prefer the ones that do their job and stay out of their hair? Or do you think they prefer the ones that are consistently asking about new opportunities?
In this world, both types of employees are needed and desired.
Of course good solid dependable workers who do their job well are in demand for many projects.
And of course the business world also needs leaders who seek out change, and evolution, and growth.
So which is more desirable? It's entirely dependent on the individual job - there is no one-size-fits-all answer here. For some jobs, Worker A is the best fit, and for other jobs the more ambitious Worker B is the better fit.
My advice is to follow your own path, and if you're naturally ambitious, let that lead you, and don't worry about the opportunities your less ambitious co-workers get or don't get.
As a manager in the software industry, I definitely love working with young and enthusiastic employees who are looking to improve themselves, but (and this is crucial) this is a positive attribute only as long as the employee is doing so out of a genuine desire to contribute to the organisation rather than selfish ambition.
Once I get the sense that the employee is overly preoccupied with his/her personal future -- potentially even at the expense of his/her current job performance -- I will usually subtly test the person by deliberately doing something to temper that person's ego. This could be as simple as a few calculated remarks, or something more involved like a so-called "demeaning" project assignment. Some people respond well and improve their attitude to become more of a team player, and others will react with immature hostility. The latter will definitely lower themselves greatly in my eyes.
And as someone else said, never go directly to upper management behind your immediate supervisor's back. That is an immediate black mark in my eyes. Not that I need to "approve" or "recommend" your choice to interact directly with upper management, of course--but at least have the basic courtesy to let me know your intention and (better still) keep me updated from time to time.
I will usually subtly test the person by deliberately doing something to temper that person's ego. This could be as simple as a few calculated remarks, or something more involved like a so-called "demeaning" project assignment. Some people respond well and improve their attitude to become more of a team player, and others will react with immature hostility. The latter will definitely lower themselves greatly in my eyes.
I'll tell you a secret! If you pull that kind of manipulation with most bright ambitious smart people, they won't care one bit what you think of them - they'll be out the door and on to something better before you can blink. No one with options would stick around and put up with that kind of work environment.
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