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Some of the posts in this thread are so dumb, I don't know whether to be alarmed or to laugh at the comedy.
No doubt the dog farming/slaughtering practices in Asian countries is cruel. But you're living a delusional fairy tale of denial if you think the beef, pork and chicken industries in the U.S. and Europe are any less cruel and savage. You think cows, pigs and chickens live peaceful, happy lives somewhere in a country paradise of dewy green pastures where sun beams wash everything in a golden light, a rainbow can be seen in the distance, and blue birds chirp cheerful songs? Do you think that when it's time for them to become food, a nice farmer enters the picture to somberly, gently and 'humanely' put them down? Laughing. My. Arse. Off.
Here are some of the things we do to cows before they are clumsily (not 'humanely' or 'quickly') killed:
-brand them, giving them 3rd degree burns
-rip their testicles off
-burn or cut their horns off
-let them freeze to death in the winter, or die of heat stroke in the summer
-cram them together in feces-filled pens
-pump them full of hormones and antibiotics
-ignore and leave the 'downed' ones to die slow, agonizing deaths
-hang them upside down while still conscious
-kick and beat them if they're moving too slow
-feed them manure and condemned cow flesh
-feed them plastic 'fiber'
Here is some of what we do to chickens before they are clumsily (not 'humanely' or 'quickly') killed:
-cut their beaks off so they won't peck each other to death in their over crowded, feces-filled pens
-throw the male ones in the grinder while still alive and fully conscious (males can't lay eggs and are therefore useless)
-string them up upside down while still fully conscious (chickens are exempt from the Humane Slaughter Act, which doesn't foster much in the way of 'humane' treatment of other animals anyway)
-boil them alive in scalding tanks (this is NOT supposed to happen, but it's so common that the industry has a name for them: redskins)
-feed them manure and condemned chicken flesh, feathers
Cows and chickens endure even more TORTURE in order to get them to produce as much milk and eggs as possible.
Pigs are treated no differently. And they are more intelligent than dogs.
And have you ever heard of a little thing invented by Western culture called VEAL? How about FOIE GRAS? The animals needed to provide you with these 'elegant' delicacies have to endure even more brutal torture than what I listed above, in order to be transformed into fancy vittles.
Calves are torn from their mothers within 24-48 hours and chained up in tiny pens designed to prevent them from moving at all...they can't even sit...where they are denied mother's milk and fed an artificial diluted solution, severely restricting their diet, inducing anemia, and producing the desired milky white tender veal meat.
Geese and duck are force fed...basically THROAT RAPED...repeatedly, on a daily basis, with a long metal pipe that reaches down right into their stomachs where a lever/pump releases a large amount of corn/grain. Eventually, their livers will become enlarged enough and they are sent off to slaughter. Or they die like the the Gluttony victim in the movie Se7en. (The female geese/duck are thrown in the trash because their livers don't get as big as those of male geese/duck.)
And, we haven't even begun to discuss the animal cruelty in the pharmaceutical business that everyone likes to conveniently ignore every time they pop an antidepressant, Ritalin, cholesterol medication, heart medication, allergy medication, erectile dysfunction pill, menstrual suppression pill, etc. etc. The only way for any prescription or OTC medication (from a legitimate pharmaceutical company regulated by the FDA or EMEA) to get on to the shelf of your local pharmacy and then in your medicine cabinet, it had to be tested on animals.
Lab animals lead miserable lives, are tortured, and then 'destroyed'. We're not just talking about rats and guinea pigs, either. We're talking about monkeys and our precious cats and dogs too. These are either specifically bred to be lab animals, or they are acquired at auctions and the local pound. Some pharma companies have been accused of stealing animals to cut corners. Beagles are the breed of dog used by pharma companies because they are 'friendly'. A lot of TORTURE goes on in the 'testing'. For example, being force fed large amounts of chemicals resulting in a slow death from poisoning, having holes cut in their throats, having their eyes cut out, being made to run on a treadmill until they collapse and die, being dissected alive (monkeys), and, oh, I don't know...being punched, beaten and shaken for schidts and giggles (see Huntingdon Life Sciences).
And as for boiling animals alive. Yeah, we do that too here in the Western world. Bristol-Myers Squibb 'accidentally' boiled a monkey alive last summer. Covance boiled a rabbit alive. We only know about these two incidents because they got caught. If this kind of thing happens at companies like that, it happens at all of them. Some are just better at covering their tracks.
'Appalling', 'contemptuous' and 'sadist' animal cruelty...institutional, systematic animal cruelty...happens in the Western world too. Get real, people.
'Appalling', 'contemptuous' and 'sadist' animal cruelty...institutional, systematic animal cruelty...happens in the Western world too.
Of course it "happens" in the Western world - who said it doesn't?
But see, the society keeps the dialog going regarding what's acceptable or not and how to alleviate cruelty associated with "mass production" of pork, chicken and beef ( questions not associated with small farming.)
Same with lab experiments - there is a debate what justifies the experiments given the benefits what's not.
The moral issues ( and debates on them) are clearly in place, where in case with skinning animals alive or beating them before consumption just for the pleasure of taste buds doesn't seem to be an issue.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE
It's not just about what kind of animals are OK to eat (cute ones or ugly ones). I would never eat dog, but they breed well, probably taste fine, so are acceptable as a food source in cultures unlike mine.
But, I can't help but hold many Asian countries in great contempt for their use and abuse of live animals of all kinds from around the world... based mostly on ancient superstitions.
Along with habitat destruction, Asian demand is the biggest reason for most wildlife species extinctions and endangerments.
This what I'm most worried about. As long as no cruelty is involved, I think Asians should be allowed to rear cats and dogs as food. They're not worthy of escaping this fate just because they're pets, although sometimes I think it'd be nice if we didn't have to kill so much for food.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,034,272 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Chinese eat dog meat, too.
So do the Swiss. Westerners who put down Asian culture as 'barbaric' because of this need to read up on history. Dog meat was commonly eaten in Germany well into the 20th century.
Anyway, I think it's more the inhumane way they kill the dogs which I'd be more worried about. I'm sure it's not the case in all instances, but some of their practices (skinning animals alive, 'live' sushi) do make me wonder. It's like some of them don't care if another living being is suffering.
Isn't it funny how Americans, who drink alcohol, fornicate before marriage, and display intimate body parts in public, are the first to scream when they discover that some other culture does things that are "disgusting".
Of course it "happens" in the Western world - who said it doesn't?
This is quite disingenuous.
A bunch of people posted in this thread that their moral objection was not so much that dogs were being slaughtered for food, it was the cruel manner in which they were being slaughtered (skinned and boiled alive). The implication, whether you want to admit it or not, is that the animals we slaughter in the West (cows, pigs, chickens) are done so in a humane, non sadistic, non cruel way (which, as I said, is a laugh since we boil, grind, burn and maim them alive).
This thread quickly degenerated into a discussion in which the underlying subtext is that of the evil, barbaric Asian culture versus superior, civilized Western culture. Sometimes, it wasn't even subtext...people blatantly put forth that they held Asian culture in contempt, that Asian culture is ugly, that Asians bringing their culture to the West were turning it into the 'third world'.
One person even posted a blatantly racist, non sequitur remark about Japanese men all being pedophiles (which has since been removed by the moderator), and not ONE person gave a damn or objected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
But see, the society keeps the dialog going regarding what's acceptable or not and how to alleviate cruelty associated with "mass production" of pork, chicken and beef ( questions not associated with small farming.)
The point is, the vast majority of Western society are consumers of mass produced, factory farmed beef, chicken and pork, regardless of whatever dialog/debate you think is in place. That's a fact. So it's pretty hypocritical for all of us to be sitting on our high horses judging Asian countries for animal cruelty when we are the biggest, fattest (literally) offenders. Even the sanctimonious people that claim they always 100% only eat organic, local, free range and cruelty free (or that hunt and kill the animals themselves ) are kidding themselves unless they also NEVER dine at restaurants, and ALWAYS investigate and refuse food at parties, weddings, banquets, etc. etc. And guess what? Investigations have shown time and time again that produce and meat labeled 'organic' and 'free range' have been given that label WRONGLY, either by mistake or on purpose to increase profits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
Same with lab experiments - there is a debate what justifies the experiments given the benefits what's not.
The moral issues ( and debates on them) are clearly in place...
Really? Where is this debate? Certainly not anywhere in this thread. Seven pages of posts and not one person brought it up until I did. I know that most people are generally against animal testing, but they are clueless about the drug trial and application process and the federally mandated animal testing that goes on. Most people's perception of the extent of animal testing is that it's probably limited to rabbits and mice being poked with syringes. But even if they did know about dogs having holes cut in their throats and cats being burned alive to study the effects of burns, it's not like they can do anything about it, or will be willing to do anything about it.
But I'm not suggesting that people give up their medications and drop dead. Although...I do think that some people over medicate and/or take unnecessary medications that can be avoided via preventive dietary and lifestyle measures (e.g., cholesterol and weight loss medication), or just plain frivolous/nonessential medication (e.g., acne medication and the 'only get your period once a year!' pill). Not to mention, there are multiple versions and name brands of every type of medication...how many animals have to be tortured and killed for how many different brands of the SAME drug to treat the SAME thing? Big pharma is all about profits. I don't hear anyone having moral debates about the bigger picture, even if they do go back and forth about animal testing specifically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
...in case with skinning animals alive or beating them before consumption just for the pleasure of taste buds doesn't seem to be an issue.
OK, so Western society maintains a moral debate/dialog regarding animal cruelty, but Asian society does not seem to? (The implication here being that Western society is civilized enough to maintain a moral debate/dialog, but Asian society is too barbaric to do so. Yeah, yeah "When did anyone say that?". No one said it. But that's what everyone is implying, without having the balls to actually say what they really mean.) But it's utter rubbish. On what, exactly, are you basing the erroneous assumption that dog meat consumption/animal cruelty "doesn't seem to be an issue" for Asian countries?
The amazing thing is that the article linked in the OP (which I guess nobody bothered to click on) is actually reporting on South Korean animal activists staging a campaign AGAINST eating dog meat (although the article's deliberately sensational headline is worded in a way to gloss completely over this fact). Here is the picture from the article:
One of the signs on the crate says "NO MORE DOG MEAT IN KOREA". The sign around the dog's neck says "DO NOT EAT MY MOTHER".
Obviously, "moral issues (and debates on them) are clearly in place" in Asian society as well as in Western society.
Luckily with regards to Spain all produce is from within the country and with Scotland too (the majority). I doubt very much their food would get passed here.
The laws in Europe are very strict but I shop at my local village butchers, grocers and fishmonger however I do visit Mercadona and Eroski sometimes. I hunt sometimes too.
LOL. You're kidding, right?
The Mad Cow Disease epidemic originated and exploded in the UK as a direct result of the slaughtering/feeding practices employed there and in Europe as a whole. Maybe the EU has better regulations now, but it's still as big a mess as anywhere else.
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) are kidding themselves unless they also NEVER dine at restaurants, and ALWAYS investigate and refuse food at parties, weddings, banquets, etc. etc. And guess what? Investigations have shown time and time again that produce and meat labeled 'organic' and 'free range' have been given that label WRONGLY, either by mistake or on purpose to increase profits.
