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Toronto has the Islands, beaches, parks and is mostly made of houses instead of high rise buildings. I would not call it hardcore urbanity. But then again I guess it's a matter of references.
Not exactly accurate. TO probably has the highest # of high rise constructions right now in North America, even bypassing NYC in the last couple of years. The high rise boom there is very real and visible throughout the city and suburbs, probably the most intense I've seen in all major North American cities.
Speaking of which - I know Sydney is also experiencing huge real estate booms. Is it a similar situation?
Not exactly accurate. TO probably has the highest # of high rise constructions right now in North America, even bypassing NYC in the last couple of years. The high rise boom there is very real and visible throughout the city and suburbs, probably the most intense I've seen in all major North American cities.
Speaking of which - I know Sydney is also experiencing huge real estate booms. Is it a similar situation?
A company called RLB does a crane index, which basically measures the number of construction cranes in the major cities in Australia and North America.
The Sydney count has been sitting at over 300 for years years now, Toronto (the highest in north america) usually sits between 120-150.
Of course, this includes all cranes regardless of the actual purpose, and I am not sure if the Toronto measure is just Toronto it self, or the Metro Area (Which is what the Sydney count covers). However it is possibly fair to say that the Sydney high rise building boom in recent years, would be very similar to that of Toronto, or may actually exceed it.
Not exactly accurate. TO probably has the highest # of high rise constructions right now in North America, even bypassing NYC in the last couple of years. The high rise boom there is very real and visible throughout the city and suburbs, probably the most intense I've seen in all major North American cities.
Speaking of which - I know Sydney is also experiencing huge real estate booms. Is it a similar situation?
yeah the boom is strong downtown, but as soon as you leave it it's mostly a sea of houses. Maybe compared to North America it's dense, but compared to the rest of the world it's just right. I mean, it's not Europe, let alone China.
Anyway it makes sense to densify in the core area of the city to prevent excessive sprawl.
yeah the boom is strong downtown, but as soon as you leave it it's mostly a sea of houses. Maybe compared to North America it's dense, but compared to the rest of the world it's just right. I mean, it's not Europe, let alone China.
Anyway it makes sense to densify in the core area of the city to prevent excessive sprawl.
Of course it's not just downtown. Downtown TO was already built out 20 years ago, there isn't much space for new constructions. Most of the new constructions are north of downtown at major intersections - Yonge and Bloor, Yonge and St. Clair, Yonge and Eglinton, and along the Queen and King east-west axis - it's a lot more spread out than you think.
Also, Toronto's suburban cities are all having their own mini construction booms at the moment, with former suburbs like Mississauga already having a skyline rivaling that of Toronto along with new LRT and regional train lines to compliment (see below).
Lastly, let's be honest, cities like Toronto are never going to become "Europe" no matter how much they build. And frankly, not a fan of China's development patterns either and I'm glad that Canadian cities are not following that model of bulldozing through vast areas to build 10 lane highways and boulevards and concrete jungles.
Mississauga City Centre (30 km west of downtown Toronto): - Mississauga City Centre
Last edited by bostonkid123; 06-23-2020 at 08:49 AM..
yeah the boom is strong downtown, but as soon as you leave it it's mostly a sea of houses. Maybe compared to North America it's dense, but compared to the rest of the world it's just right. I mean, it's not Europe, let alone China.
Anyway it makes sense to densify in the core area of the city to prevent excessive sprawl.
Have you been to Toronto and actually ventured out of the area? I can see a tourist only venturing in neighbourhoods close to downtown, but what lies beyond that is not just houses.
Have you been to Toronto and actually ventured out of the area? I can see a tourist only venturing in neighbourhoods close to downtown, but what lies beyond that is not just houses.
I came back two summers ago. It is true there have been constructions in some other areas including the core areas of some suburban areas. But if you look at a map, the vast majority of the surface of the city is still made of houses.
I was staying at Kensington Market but when venturing in neighborhoods further away, like in Little Portugal or Greek town, it still mostly looks the same. I actually saw the Mississauga boom and there were more high rise buildings along Bloor, Yonge and obviously Queen St (the part that has changed the most), but it's still a long way from being only buildings, the city is way too vast for that.
I came back two summers ago. It is true there have been constructions in some other areas including the core areas of some suburban areas. But if you look at a map, the vast majority of the surface of the city is still made of houses.
I was staying at Kensington Market but when venturing in neighborhoods further away, like in Little Portugal or Greek town, it still mostly looks the same. I actually saw the Mississauga boom and there were more high rise buildings along Bloor, Yonge and obviously Queen St (the part that has changed the most), but it's still a long way from being only buildings, the city is way too vast for that.
How is Sydney or any other Australian or North American city any different (maybe with exception of Manhattan island)? Toronto is a North American city, I don't think it'll ever become a "European" city no matter how much you build. And frankly, why should Toronto or Sydney try to copy European or Asian cities? They all have their unique local conditions, histories, and cultures that each city needs to take into consideration and respect when building new structures. Look at how some Chinese cities "copy/pasted" some European towns and how that turned out:
Tianchu City, China - "Paris of the East". This is what happens when you try to copy other places and build too much, too fast, with zero consideration for the environment or local histories and cultures. I'm sure the residents in Tianchu City are just loving the bistros, the cafes, the museums, and the fake Seine that "Paris" has to offer:
Also, you can't just "bulldoze" over existing single family houses - they are all private property that have to be acquired at market value by the developer - should the owners be willing to sell. This isn't mainland China, where developers or the local government can send a few gangster thugs to "convince" residents to move "or else".
Last edited by bostonkid123; 06-24-2020 at 03:09 PM..
I never said Toronto looked european, actually I think it looks very north american in that it mostly has houses and few buildings except for skyscrapers. Look at Paris or London and there are few houses in general compared to buildings of several stories, at least in the central parts. To find a similar atmosphere in a large european city you usually have to go pretty far from the center.
I mean I really like how Toronto looks, there's a lot of space and it feels a lot less dense than most european large cities. Actually I think it has a lot of advantages, I never thought it should look more european, whatever that means. That's why I said it wasn't "hardcore urbanity" at all. If you walk in Toronto, even in the center, it's pretty quiet because of all the space between the houses. Sure there's the "old Toronto" part with all the skyscrapers, but it's a small part of the city compared to everything else.
The main problem with that is urban sprawl and transportation issues, because two metro lines is pretty ridiculous compared to the size of the city and population.
I never said Toronto looked european, actually I think it looks very north american in that it mostly has houses and few buildings except for skyscrapers. Look at Paris or London and there are few houses in general compared to buildings of several stories, at least in the central parts. To find a similar atmosphere in a large european city you usually have to go pretty far from the center.
I mean I really like how Toronto looks, there's a lot of space and it feels a lot less dense than most european large cities. Actually I think it has a lot of advantages, I never thought it should look more european, whatever that means. That's why I said it wasn't "hardcore urbanity" at all. If you walk in Toronto, even in the center, it's pretty quiet because of all the space between the houses. Sure there's the "old Toronto" part with all the skyscrapers, but it's a small part of the city compared to everything else.
The main problem with that is urban sprawl and transportation issues, because two metro lines is pretty ridiculous compared to the size of the city and population.
Overall agree with your sentiment.
Actually 4 subway lines (2 shorter lines in the north and eastern end of the city), along with Line 5 scheduled to open at end of 2021 (Eglinton Line), and Line 6 (Finch West LRT) scheduled for 2023. But yes, Toronto really isn't the model for rapid rail transit, and it'll be years before it reaches an adequate level.
Also, Toronto is upgrading its regional rail system into a more frequent rapid transit system, not unlike what we have in Paris RER and Sydney. It's a huge project involving 7 lines of regional rail to connect all suburbs with all-day metro-style rail service. The project is the most expensive in the country's history, at $14 billion, and scheduled to come online between 2022-2024. It is in the midst of building 205 km of new rail track, 687 km of electrified track, and 6000+ scheduled services per week (up from current 3500 per week). I think Toronto is moving in the right direction, but will still take some years before the public transit network really improves.
One thing I like about both Sydney and Toronto is that the local governments in both countries tend to be transit-friendly, and are willing to invest large sums of public funds into improving transit. This is unlike many other jurisdictions in North America - especially U.S. metros - where you have some state governments who are openly hostile to transit and are actively blocking transit investments in favor of more freeways.
Last edited by bostonkid123; 06-25-2020 at 08:13 AM..
Yeah, I don't think Toronto is by any means "european" but probably compared to, say, Houston or Atlanta it is a lot more transit-friendly, a bit like New York but smaller.
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