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For me, I would say Can/US/Aus/NZ/*** & Western Europe but no former Eastern Bloc countries except Czech and possibly Estonia. For West-light, I would include Israel, Slovenia, Slovakia, Uruguay, Argentina, and Chile and maybe, South Africa.
So you Include Slovakia and not Hungary (Which is legit central Europe,and was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire). Even Poland as a whole has a better call of being considered "Western" than Slovakia. Please dont confuse Slovakia with Slovenia...
Slovakia is not more Western than the Balkans, let alone Hungary or even Latvia..
When I think int the West I think in the Anglosphere, The US, UK, Australia, Canada, NZ and Ireland..
They are the countries obsessed with "The West", naming other countries "Third World" concept such as "whiteness", "The White man", "minorities", "race traitor", "White Europeans". Concepts that even for the Western Part of Continental Europe and Scandinavia sound completely Alien.
I Consider the Anglosphere an own thing in its own right, a cultural bubble that is extremely culturally and mentally removed from the rest of the World population, regardless thinking that they are the center of the World because they Speak English as first language, yes so Advanced that most people in the Anglosphere only speak 1 language, while Europeans and even Africans /Middle easterns are able to speak multiple languages..
Yet strangely, these obsessed, cultural bubbled countries with their alien concepts are the places that so many people want to move to. I wonder why?
I think it'd depend on the context if it's talking about culture or specific geopolitical situations. I think culturally, the most expansive view of the West would be
- all of Europe including the Caucasus except for Azerbaijan and not including the bit of Turkey in Europe
- the Americas
- countries and dependencies in Oceania that arose mostly from settler colonies of European countries and immigrants
- in Africa, Cape Verde and Sao Tome and Principe as well as Namibia and South Africa given the lingua franca and maybe Angola based on a combination of how thoroughly European languages are used as the lingua franca, the Christian religion has taken hold and the concentrated wealth and influence in distinctly European descended communities
- Asia gets maybe a nod to Singapore especially its heavy handed adoption of the English language and to Israel for society and culture that's closely modeled towards that of Europe and filled with descendants and immigrants from such
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-11-2022 at 07:23 PM..
Israel only in terms of politics, it has a non-western Religion and Culture.
Judaism is a Western religion, and the majority of Israelis are European Jews. The only somewhat relevant variance is the language as Hebrew (and Arabic) is an Afroasiatic language, but that doesn't really matter since Finnish isn't an Indo-European language either. Israel is also a successful democracy and an advanced economy. By all reasonable definitions it's definitely part of the West.
Judaism is a Western religion, and the majority of Israelis are European Jews. The only somewhat relevant variance is the language as Hebrew (and Arabic) is an Afroasiatic language, but that doesn't really matter since Finnish isn't an Indo-European language either. Israel is also a successful democracy and an advanced economy. By all reasonable definitions it's definitely part of the West.
On the religion bit, so is Islam. I reckon all the sort of mainline cultures that have some parts tracing back to Mesopotamia and the Fertile Crescent in general should get a catchy name as a grouping. Maybe the Crescentis? Creshies?
I think the bit about how most of the population are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants from Europe within the last several centuries is probably a pretty solid enough argument by itself.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-11-2022 at 08:59 PM..
On the religion bit, so is Islam. I reckon all the sort of mainline cultures that have some parts tracing back to Mesopotamia and the Fertile Crescent in general should get a catchy name as a grouping. Maybe the Crescentis? Creshies?
I think the bit about how most of the population are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants from Europe within the last several centuries is probably a pretty solid enough argument by itself.
Unless one is going to call all of Europe "the West," I'm not sure if that argument convinces me personally. The bulk of Israel's European ancestry seems to be from Eastern Europe from what I gather.
Then you have pieces like this (I haven't been able to fact check myself, but I'll take this guy's word for things):
Quote:
I am Mizrahi, as are the majority of Jews in Israel today. We are of Middle Eastern and North African descent. Only about 30% of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi, or the descendants of European Jews. I am baffled as to why mainstream media and politicians around the world ignore or misrepresent these facts and the Mizrahi story. Perhaps it’s because our history shatters a stereotype about the identity of my country and my people.
On the religion bit, so is Islam. I reckon all the sort of mainline cultures that have some parts tracing back to Mesopotamia and the Fertile Crescent in general should get a catchy name as a grouping. Maybe the Crescentis? Creshies?
They have the same roots but Judaism has modernised like Christianity while Islam has not. The Jewish community is thoroughly integrated in modern Europe and America (a bit less so in Europe but mostly it's fine), the Islamic community is not.
The West = Judeo-Christian traditions, democratic/liberal values, and advanced economy. Israel checks all three boxes.
Then you have to factor in the fact that 20%+ of Israel's population is Arab, with the bulk of those being Muslim. Additionally, more than 160k Jews in Israel are of Ethiopian ancestry, which further muddles the waters in terms of race/ethnicity, IMO.
It is with this information that I am hesitant to call Israel "the West." But that's me.
Around 10% of the French/Belgian/Swedish population is also Arab/North African at this point (and growing fast) and more than 15% of Canada's population is Asian, so I would say ethnicity isn't really relevant.
Around 10% of the French/Belgian/Swedish population is also Arab/North African at this point (and growing fast) and more than 15% of Canada's population is Asian, so I would say ethnicity isn't really relevant.
In theory, I'd agree with you, but that assumes from my point of view that transplants adopt the dominant culture vice sticking to their birth cultures and, thus, in my view making society less "western." Still, in those countries, the "minority" populations are still, well, the minority and aren't anywhere close to being the majority from a racial perspective. Thus, I'd argue that western culture still dominates in places like France/Sweden/Canada/etc.
I am not sure that the same is or ever was true for Israel
On the religion front, many countries have what most would consider a "western" religion at the forefront of society, to include the Philippines which is almost 90% Christian, but I doubt that most would call the Philippines "the West" based on religion. Based on the sampling of this thread, we see that most here certainly don't consider the Philippines to be a "the West."
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