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Old 08-25-2022, 09:25 PM
 
Location: London, UK
4,096 posts, read 3,719,938 times
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Probably not in my lifetime but there are already huge areas of Bogota that have a very London-esque and NYC look & feel. It lacks the economic might but there are definitely pockets that have reached said calibre, they just need to drag the rest of the city with it.

Maybe in the next 50-70 years.

BOGOTA


Bogota 54608_1 by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


PlantillasPágina by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


DJI_0010 by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


AIMG_3922 by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


Castillo Chia by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


Bogotá-panorámica-mjm.co_ by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


infraestructura-en-bogota by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


R7lmy0d by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


Fb5D973 by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


Bogota Nevado Tolima by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


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TnrIzsY by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


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2016-03-14-08.00.46 by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


33610503726_6b675159f1_b - Copy by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


tour-panoramico-bogota by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


Seminario Mayor Bogota DSC_00561 by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


35617627824_bb0b1070ba_b - Copy by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


35800359084_ba4010134d_b - Copy by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


Bogota 48644521608_1bfe23d729_h by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


35211974882_463521af49_b - Copy by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr


La candelaria, mezcla de arquitectura moderna y antigua. #street #streetstyle #photography #photographer #streetphotography #streetpic #picoftheday #streetview #art #traffic #people #mylife #happiness #picoftheday #happy #followme #igers_bogota #bogota # by Andrea Rodriguez, on Flickr


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MY CITY by Leocker, on Flickr


Bogota - Monserrate by MCC_Indianapolis, on Flickr

Bogota 16367893410_f88a4ff364_o by Jon Aracataca, on Flickr
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Old 10-01-2022, 03:58 PM
 
Location: London, UK
4,096 posts, read 3,719,938 times
Reputation: 2900
Bogotá shorts


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Old 10-01-2022, 08:00 PM
 
383 posts, read 180,869 times
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Sao Paulo? Rio? Buenos Aires?
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Old 10-01-2022, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
10,059 posts, read 14,935,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Asians have proven they can create top-ranking word class cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore. It remains to be seen whether Latin American countries can do the same. Given a few decades, maybe the cities you mentioned will reach that level.
Latin American cities that reach those levels will still be among the more chaotic of the bunch. In general, Latin America is more chaotic than Europe, North America (excluding Mexico) and much of Asia, in particular East Asia. What you basically have is a region where some countries are more chaotic than others, but the force of government is reduced except in dictatorships such as Cuba.

Also size has much of an impact too. I'll use the Dominican Republic and China as examples. The DR is actually more developed than China, but the DR is also much more chaotic and more informal. Those two things have nothing to do with economic development, but rather culture. So a country can have much economic development and still retain its chaos and informality if the cultural aspects that influences those two last things aren't changed. What you end up having is a wealthier society that is more chaotic and informal than most similar societies and even most societies that are less economically developed. You see this in the driving. The things you see on Dominican roads you simply will not see in China (or in much of Latin America for that matter). You spend enough time in the DR and crazy doesn't even scratches the surface as far as what you will see on the roads and that is just the driving.

Given that China is a less economically developed country than the DR but is much more orderly and much more formal, implies the surgance of megacities such as Shanghai or Shenzhen. The greatest aspects of all is size, China is simply humongous than the DR with a population size that is insane. To see how much size influences in all of this, look at India. That country is actually more chaotic than the DR, significantly less economically developed than the DR and still more formal than the DR. At the same time it's significantly poorer than China, more chaotic than China and less formal than China. In an India like that you will never see a city like Shanghai appear, but Mumbai as a city has more options and in many areas appear more developed than in any city in the DR, even Santo Domingo. It's also true that the level of poverty and underdevelopment seen in Mumbai is not present anywhere in the DR. The sheer size of the place causes that Mumbai has more options in the developed side compared to the DR, but also more misery on the undeveloped size compared to the DR too. Yet, the DR is more economically developed and Santo Domingo overall has most of its population not living in slums while in Mumbai it's a crazy number around 65%. Life in Santo Domingo is more comfortable, more pleasant, etc to life for the average person in Mumbai. Yet, there is nothing in Santo Domingo like the more developed parts of Mumbai.

Many people associate with economic development several things that actually have not much to do with economic development. There are plenty of societies that are much more poor and yet are more orderly, clean, formal, etc than other societies that in fact are richer and give a better and more comfortable life to a larger percentage of its population. You could've gone to Moldova and think it was more developed than the DR due to how orderly it's, it's cities are better planned, etc; yet, in reality the DR is more economically developed than Moldova. The average Dominican simply has a more confirtable life despite living in a more chaotic and less formal society than Moldovans. Moldova's capital looks like nothing like Santo Domingo, can you believe Moldova's capital is actually less wealthy than Santo Domingo? How can it be if Moldova's capital is visibly better planned than Santo Domingo with very wide avenues, a subway system that simply looks more impressive, cleaner, better urbanism, etc? Food for thought.

So, I wouldn't expect any large city in Latin America to be as orderly as global cities in Europe, North America or East Asia. However, cities like São Paulo holds a good position regarding the ability to become a global city.

Last edited by AntonioR; 10-01-2022 at 08:23 PM..
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Old 10-01-2022, 11:29 PM
 
383 posts, read 180,869 times
Reputation: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Latin American cities that reach those levels will still be among the more chaotic of the bunch. In general, Latin America is more chaotic than Europe, North America (excluding Mexico) and much of Asia, in particular East Asia. What you basically have is a region where some countries are more chaotic than others, but the force of government is reduced except in dictatorships such as Cuba.

Also size has much of an impact too. I'll use the Dominican Republic and China as examples. The DR is actually more developed than China, but the DR is also much more chaotic and more informal. Those two things have nothing to do with economic development, but rather culture. So a country can have much economic development and still retain its chaos and informality if the cultural aspects that influences those two last things aren't changed. What you end up having is a wealthier society that is more chaotic and informal than most similar societies and even most societies that are less economically developed. You see this in the driving. The things you see on Dominican roads you simply will not see in China (or in much of Latin America for that matter). You spend enough time in the DR and crazy doesn't even scratches the surface as far as what you will see on the roads and that is just the driving.

Given that China is a less economically developed country than the DR but is much more orderly and much more formal, implies the surgance of megacities such as Shanghai or Shenzhen. The greatest aspects of all is size, China is simply humongous than the DR with a population size that is insane. To see how much size influences in all of this, look at India. That country is actually more chaotic than the DR, significantly less economically developed than the DR and still more formal than the DR. At the same time it's significantly poorer than China, more chaotic than China and less formal than China. In an India like that you will never see a city like Shanghai appear, but Mumbai as a city has more options and in many areas appear more developed than in any city in the DR, even Santo Domingo. It's also true that the level of poverty and underdevelopment seen in Mumbai is not present anywhere in the DR. The sheer size of the place causes that Mumbai has more options in the developed side compared to the DR, but also more misery on the undeveloped size compared to the DR too. Yet, the DR is more economically developed and Santo Domingo overall has most of its population not living in slums while in Mumbai it's a crazy number around 65%. Life in Santo Domingo is more comfortable, more pleasant, etc to life for the average person in Mumbai. Yet, there is nothing in Santo Domingo like the more developed parts of Mumbai.

Many people associate with economic development several things that actually have not much to do with economic development. There are plenty of societies that are much more poor and yet are more orderly, clean, formal, etc than other societies that in fact are richer and give a better and more comfortable life to a larger percentage of its population. You could've gone to Moldova and think it was more developed than the DR due to how orderly it's, it's cities are better planned, etc; yet, in reality the DR is more economically developed than Moldova. The average Dominican simply has a more confirtable life despite living in a more chaotic and less formal society than Moldovans. Moldova's capital looks like nothing like Santo Domingo, can you believe Moldova's capital is actually less wealthy than Santo Domingo? How can it be if Moldova's capital is visibly better planned than Santo Domingo with very wide avenues, a subway system that simply looks more impressive, cleaner, better urbanism, etc? Food for thought.

So, I wouldn't expect any large city in Latin America to be as orderly as global cities in Europe, North America or East Asia. However, cities like São Paulo holds a good position regarding the ability to become a global city.

First, what do you mean by "chaotic"? Because according to some definitions, China, the US, and even a few European countries could be considered so.
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Old 10-02-2022, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
6,470 posts, read 4,066,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perennial millennial View Post
First, what do you mean by "chaotic"? Because according to some definitions, China, the US, and even a few European countries could be considered so.
He lost me at Chinese driving is more orderly than DR. China itself is known for wild driving in general.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8bfNplEmfo

This video is old, but it just shows some of the driving in certain areas. It is well known that driving in China still has it's extreme behavior that you'll see once in a Blue moon in a more developed country. Now, I have no clue how that compare's to DR, but bad driving is fairly common in less developed countries, it's high key one of the most obvious signs.
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Old 10-02-2022, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
3,834 posts, read 4,438,748 times
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For the third world countries, I personally dont like the idea of focusing on creating a super city. Creating a first world city in a third world country has quite a few modern day examples right now. I dont like it because it takes the scarce resources that these third world countries have and focuses it all on what is usually a very small percentage of the nation. For example, you can go to Thailand. In Bangkok you will see all the gleaming towers, office buildings, Starbucks and good wifi. Travel outside the city into the rest of the country (where the vast majority of citizens live) and all that western affluence gets stripped away very quickly. Same thing in Malaysia, Indonesia, even Mexico and Brazil.

The far more effective plan is to focus on spreading out the wealth to as many population centers as possible, not just the one capital/prime city. It would be far better to have the entire country have a HDI of say .750, than to have the capital at .900 and the rest of the country at .400
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Old 10-02-2022, 06:21 PM
 
2,210 posts, read 1,318,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Bogotá shorts
W1pYksp-Q78
ZmfZWW-dzUM
Nice. Thanks for sharing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
He lost me at Chinese driving is more orderly than DR. China itself is known for wild driving in general.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8bfNplEmfo

This video is old, but it just shows some of the driving in certain areas. It is well known that driving in China still has it's extreme behavior that you'll see once in a Blue moon in a more developed country. Now, I have no clue how that compare's to DR, but bad driving is fairly common in less developed countries, it's high key one of the most obvious signs.
Where is DR?
Interesting video - not that old (2014). It looks like a 4-way uncontrolled junction without traffic lights.

The traffic at Place de la Concorde freaks me out.
https://i.imgur.com/72c9XmZ.mp4
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Old 10-03-2022, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
10,059 posts, read 14,935,470 times
Reputation: 10363
Quote:
Originally Posted by perennial millennial View Post
First, what do you mean by "chaotic"? Because according to some definitions, China, the US, and even a few European countries could be considered so.
The level of chaos is not only seen in the driving, but also in other things such as zoning.

Case in point, the USA and the DR. In the first the common feature of cities and towns is strong zoning and that comes from a strong government. In the DR cities and towns do have zoning, but this isn't always enforced and the zoning there is often isn't like what prevails in the USA. As a result, your typical US city is one where most people live in a certain part, work/shop/entertain in another. You don't find except in rare exceptions a business in the middle of a residential area or a street with houses and a factory inbetween. You do see this in the DR. In much of Europe, particularly in the west, zoning is even stricter than in the DR or the USA, especially when dealing with buildings built centuries ago.

Now, there are some benefits to having a weaker and/or different zoning practices than in the USA. You suddenly need to buy aspirin, don't worry because the pharmacy is very close by, often times withing walking distance. In the USA you suddenly need to buy aspirin and you have to get in your car and spend some time getting to the pharmacy, finding the aspiring, buying the aspirin, get in your car again and spend some time on your way back to your home.

If you need to buy say avocados, you can either go to the closest supermarket or grocery store or simply wait until the daily truck selling fruits and vegestables come to your street. The will actually stop their pickup right in front of your house. That doesn't happens in the USA except for ice cream trucks.

There are disadvantages too. If the business that opens next to your house is a nightclub, let's just say you will have more days with red eyes.

In the USA is much more prevalent for motorists to stop and wait for pedestrians to cross a crosswalk if they are already on it. In Latin America more often than not pedestrians aren't people in the streets, cars are. Get it?

In the USA the right of way in an intersection goes to the vehicle that arrived first at the intersection. In the DR the right of way often goes to the larger vehicle that arrived at the intersection regardless if they arrived first or not. In the USA a traffic jam forms on the highway and usually the cars will stay in the traffic lanes, while in the DR cars will be all over the road including the emergency lanes on the side.

In Latin America it varies from country to country, but in general Latin American cities are more chaotic than American ones (and also more noisy).

Last edited by AntonioR; 10-03-2022 at 05:43 PM..
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Old 10-03-2022, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
10,059 posts, read 14,935,470 times
Reputation: 10363
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
He lost me at Chinese driving is more orderly than DR. China itself is known for wild driving in general.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8bfNplEmfo

This video is old, but it just shows some of the driving in certain areas. It is well known that driving in China still has it's extreme behavior that you'll see once in a Blue moon in a more developed country. Now, I have no clue how that compare's to DR, but bad driving is fairly common in less developed countries, it's high key one of the most obvious signs.
Yeah, wasn't thinking about that but more about this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKXYRQxptJA

The DR actually has the world's most traffic deaths due to how bad people drive.


https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/...ffic-accidents

Since you asked how does driving in China compares to the Dominican Republic, get an idea here:


https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/...ffic-accidents


Mexico:


https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/...ffic-accidents


USA:


https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/...ffic-accidents
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