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You have failed to mention the very recent military treaty where: UK being part of the AUKUS treaty with Australia and USA on military and security matters.
The UK already had close security links with Australia through the Five Power Defence Arrangements and Five Eyes however this doesn't mean we will get involved in a war with China, should they invade Taiwan.
As for AUKUS treaty, it's mainly about helping Australia to increase it's defences in relation to an increasingly unstable region.
If Australia, New Zealand or Japan were attacked then Britain and other countries would go to their defence, however Taiwan is a different kettle of fish.
The French submarine deal, involved conventional submarines, was massively over budget and was plagued with problems and security leaks, which is why Australia decided to scrap the deal. The decision was Australia's and not Britain's or America's.
France and Britain enjoy very close military and military research collaboration through the Lancaster House Treaties which includes the Anglo-French Combined Joint Expeditionary Force, whilst Britain also heads the UK Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) which includes a lot of mainly Nordic and other North European countries.
Britain is also contributing with the European Military Mobility project which is part of the European Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO), and the mobility project is a strategic platform aiming to simplify and standardise national cross-border military transport procedures. It enables the swift movement of military personnel and assets throughout the EU, be it via road, rail, sea, or air.
Britain has also recently signed a Reciprocal Access Agreement, allowing Japanese and British forces to work, exercise and operate together, boosting the UK’s commitment to the Indo-Pacific and further safeguarding global peace and security. Britain is the first European country to have such an agreement with Japan, and Britain is also working closely with Japan on Tempest and other technology.
The BAE Systems Tempest is a proposed sixth-generation jet fighter aircraft that is under development in the United Kingdom for the Royal Air Force (RAF). The aircraft is intended to enter service from 2035, gradually replacing the Eurofighter Typhoon, and Britain will is working alongside Italy and Sweden and Japan, who have also announced they are working together with Britain on the joint development of engine and radar demonstrators, and that Japan's own Mitsubishi F-X fighter project could cut development costs for both countries.
As for South Korea, the UK has no treaty obligations in terms of the defence of South Korea if it is attacked, however, it has been made clear – but not automatic – commitment to take part in resisting renewed aggression and Britain has sought closer research, training and cyber security links with South Korea in recent bilateral agreements.
In terms of NATO, I don't think a war with China over Taiwan is in it's remit, which is mainly as a defensive force in relation to much of Europe and the US/Canada, and is not committed to the defence of Taiwan.
Britain does play ii's part in NATO, and even hosts, the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps and the Allied Maritime Component Command at Northwood.
Last edited by Brave New World; 11-24-2022 at 07:26 AM..
General de J@ck@s5 is correct and France wasn’t and isn’t considered a “real ally” due to France’s lack of consistent support and lack of military capabilities.
I haven’t forgotten which country voted to give an elderly general dictatorial powers, went beyond minimum requirements for collaboration, quit fighting for freedom, voluntary deported Jews, refused to play its full role in NATO and claims moral superiority over countries that didn’t do such things.
The UK already had close security links with Australia through the Five Power Defence Arrangements and Five Eyes however this doesn't mean we will get involved in a war with China, should they invade Taiwan.
As for AUKUS treaty, it's mainly about helping Australia to increase it's defences in relation to an increasingly unstable region.
If Australia, New Zealand or Japan were attacked then Britain and other countries would go to their defence, however Taiwan is a different kettle of fish.
The French submarine deal, involved conventional submarines, was massively over budget and was plagued with problems and security leaks, which is why Australia decided to scrap the deal. The decision was Australia's and not Britain's or America's.
France and Britain enjoy very close military and military research collaboration through the Lancaster House Treaties which includes the Anglo-French Combined Joint Expeditionary Force, whilst Britain also heads the UK Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) which includes a lot of mainly Nordic and other North European countries.
Britain is also contributing with the European Military Mobility project which is part of the European Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO), and the mobility project is a strategic platform aiming to simplify and standardise national cross-border military transport procedures. It enables the swift movement of military personnel and assets throughout the EU, be it via road, rail, sea, or air.
Britain has also recently signed a Reciprocal Access Agreement, allowing Japanese and British forces to work, exercise and operate together, boosting the UK’s commitment to the Indo-Pacific and further safeguarding global peace and security. Britain is the first European country to have such an agreement with Japan, and Britain is also working closely with Japan on Tempest and other technology.
The BAE Systems Tempest is a proposed sixth-generation jet fighter aircraft that is under development in the United Kingdom for the Royal Air Force (RAF). The aircraft is intended to enter service from 2035, gradually replacing the Eurofighter Typhoon, and Britain will is working alongside Italy and Sweden and Japan, who have also announced they are working together with Britain on the joint development of engine and radar demonstrators, and that Japan's own Mitsubishi F-X fighter project could cut development costs for both countries.
As for South Korea, the UK has no treaty obligations in terms of the defence of South Korea if it is attacked, however, it has been made clear – but not automatic – commitment to take part in resisting renewed aggression and Britain has sought closer research, training and cyber security links with South Korea in recent bilateral agreements.
In terms of NATO, I don't think a war with China over Taiwan is in it's remit, which is mainly as a defensive force in relation to much of Europe and the US/Canada, and is not committed to the defence of Taiwan.
Britain does play ii's part in NATO, and even hosts, the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps and the Allied Maritime Component Command at Northwood.
Historically the Australian submarine fleet has been dependent on expertise from the Royal Navy and a number of senior officers are from Britain. But other than questions of comradeship, for very rational reasons, the British seemed to have jumped on this opportunity. At a practical strategic level, AUKUS will enable Britain to have more permanent basing rights for its own nuclear-powered submarines in Australia. This would enable a more sustained naval presence in the Indo-Pacific rather than the fleeting deployment, as at the moment, of a naval group around the Royal Navy’s flagship, HMS Queen Elizabeth.https://thediplomat.com/2021/12/auku...he-big-winner/
With this the British Naval presence in Australia and its rights to have a permanent military presence in Australia. However, it is a big mess if they are doing it to contain China especially in relation with Taiwan. That is why the Chinese government has been outspoken against AUKUS.
Plus also:
China’s attitude is clear: It is not against establishing security pacts or military co-operation between countries in the Asia-Pacific region, as long as they don’t target a third country in an attempt to undermine its interests,” the Global Times wrote.
After Biden and the Yanks attitude to Brexit I'd personally tell em to b*gger off! I hope we distance ourselves (politically) from the US as much as possible over the next few years. Its time to build Political bridges with people that show some respect.
After Biden and the Yanks attitude to Brexit I'd personally tell em to b*gger off! I hope we distance ourselves (politically) from the US as much as possible over the next few years. Its time to build Political bridges with people that show some respect.
Historically the Australian submarine fleet has been dependent on expertise from the Royal Navy and a number of senior officers are from Britain. But other than questions of comradeship, for very rational reasons, the British seemed to have jumped on this opportunity. At a practical strategic level, AUKUS will enable Britain to have more permanent basing rights for its own nuclear-powered submarines in Australia. This would enable a more sustained naval presence in the Indo-Pacific rather than the fleeting deployment, as at the moment, of a naval group around the Royal Navy’s flagship, HMS Queen Elizabeth.https://thediplomat.com/2021/12/auku...he-big-winner/
With this the British Naval presence in Australia and its rights to have a permanent military presence in Australia. However, it is a big mess if they are doing it to contain China especially in relation with Taiwan. That is why the Chinese government has been outspoken against AUKUS.
Plus also:
China’s attitude is clear: It is not against establishing security pacts or military co-operation between countries in the Asia-Pacific region, as long as they don’t target a third country in an attempt to undermine its interests,” the Global Times wrote.
AUKUS is an issue for the Australian Parliament, as is basing in relation to foreign allied ship and submarines.
The UK has specialist facilities in relation to submarines in places such as Barrow in Furness, Devonport (Plymouth) and the Clyde, and also lets allies use it's own ports and facilities with US and NATO ships also often using facilities art Portsmouth in the UK.
The aircraft carrier USS Gerald Ford, and raft of other US ships visited Portsmouth earlier this month and US ships and submarines regularly visit the UK and numerous other European ports under NATO agreements.
I also doubt very much that Britain, would do more than merely seek to use facilities operated by Australia itself.
Btw - a notable tragic incident occurred December 2006 in the UK in relation to a US Navy Submarine.
RIP -
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guardian (30th December 2006)
Two sailors from a US submarine died yesterday after falling overboard as the vessel left Devonport in Devon after a week's visit to Britain. The men had been pulled from the sea with two other crew members but were pronounced dead after being taken to hospital in Plymouth.
The four crew members from the USS Minneapolis St Paul went overboard in an apparent accident in rough weather. A Royal Navy rescue helicopter was dispatched from the Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose, along with a lifeboat and tug from Plymouth, and the four were pulled from the water by fellow crew members and the rescue team.
They were then taken to Derriford hospital in Plymouth but it was not possible to save the lives of two of them. The surviving crew members, who suffered minor injuries, were released from hospital.
AUKUS is an issue for the Australian Parliament, as is basing in relation to foreign allied ship and submarines.
The UK has specialist facilities in relation to submarines in places such as Barrow in Furness, Devonport (Plymouth) and the Clyde, and also lets allies use it's own ports and facilities with US and NATO ships also often using facilities art Portsmouth in the UK.
The aircraft carrier USS Gerald Ford, and raft of other US ships visited Portsmouth earlier this month and US ships and submarines regularly visit the UK and numerous other European ports under NATO agreements.
I also doubt very much that Britain, would do more than merely seek to use facilities operated by Australia itself.
Btw - a notable tragic incident occurred December 2006 in the UK in relation to a US Navy Submarine.
RIP -
The UK does have military stationed in Australia. Australia is host to four British military bases: the Wyndham aerodrome in Western Australia, Williamtown in New South Wales, Woomera and Mawson Lakes, both in South Australia.[2] According to a Declassified UK report, the British military also has around 60 personnel stationed across the country. Around 25 of these hold defence attaché roles in the British High Commission in Canberra and at Australian Defence Department sites near the capital, such as the Headquarters Joint Operations Command at Bungendore.[1]
A further ten British military personnel are based at unspecified locations in New Zealand. Parliamentary data from 2014 showed their roles included working as navigators on a P-3K Orion aircraft, which is operated by the Royal New Zealand Air Force.[1][21][22][23]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overse...the%20country.
Declassified has found that the UK also has around 60 personnel spread across Australia. Some 25 of these hold defence attaché roles in the British High Commission in Canberra and at Australian Defence Department sites near the capital, such as the Headquarters Joint Operations Command at Bungendore.
IN additon British military are stationed in South East Asia too:
These include a naval logistics base at Sembawang Wharf in Singapore, where eight British military staff are permanently based. The base provides Britain with a commanding position overlooking the Malacca Strait, the world’s busiest shipping lanes which are a key choke point for vessels sailing from the South China Sea into the Indian Ocean.
The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has previously told Declassified: “Singapore is a strategically important location for commerce and trade.” Singapore’s most elite police unit is recruited by British soldiers and commanded by UK military veterans.
As well as having a naval base on the rim of the South China Sea, the British military has an even more central basing location in Brunei, near the disputed Spratly Islands.
The Sultan of Brunei, a dictator who recently proposed the death penalty for homosexuals, pays for British military support in order to stay in power. He also allows the British oil giant Shell to have a major stake in Brunei’s oil and gas fields. https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...-42-countries/
The UK is also helping Taiwan to defend itself from China as well:
The UK is determined to work with its allies to ensure that Taiwan can defend itself, British Prime Minister Liz Truss said on Sunday, a pledge that drew expressions of gratitude from Taipei.
“What I’ve been clear about is that all of our allies need to make sure Taiwan is able to defend itself, and that is very, very important,” Truss said in a CNN interview, when asked whether the UK was willing to match the US’ pledge last week to defend Taiwan militarily in the event of an attack by China https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/fro.../27/2003785985
The UK is playing an active role in striving to contain China in regards to Taiwan, and has a permanent military presence in South EAst Asia and Australia, and one of the motives is to contain China. It is a lie when you said: I don't think there is any appetite in Europe for a war with China, and the US policy is to support Taiwan in terms of arms and supplies but to stay out of any war, but that's up to the US.
BTW the UK is pissed off of what happened to Hong Kong with the Chinese Government asserting its increasing authority in Hong Kong since the UK gave up sovereignty on Hong Kong. The UK has attempted to politically interfere with Hong Kong, and that has pissed off the Chinese government. That one of the reasons China does not trust the UK.
With the New PM, he is an anti China hawk:
Sunak, who used aggressive anti-China rhetoric during his run-up for the post of British prime minister, is considered to be among the fiercest China hawks in the British political elite. In his first phone call with Biden, after taking charge of his new assignment, Sunak displayed the tone of his policy towards China by pledging to work closely with the US in the Indo-Pacific region to counter “China’s malign influence”.
This call immediately signalled that we should brace for further high-voltage anti-China hype from the new British prime minister. When Sunak and Liz Truss fought to win the leadership of the Conservative Party, they indulged in a frantic competition of China-bashing to prove themselves the bigger China hawk to lure the Tory faithful. https://mg.co.za/opinion/2022-11-20-...he-g20-summit/
BTW you were critical when Nancy Pelosi visit Taiwan, but guess who just made a visit to Taiwan???? the UK trade minister Greg Handshttps://www.theguardian.com/politics...lks-greg-hands BTW what Greg Hands said: Britain's minister of state for trade, told President Tsai Ing-wen during their meeting on Wednesday that "our relationship reaches beyond trade and investment.https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Chi...isit-to-Taiwan
Taiwan is holding local elections to choose mayors etc today.
Would be interesting to watch how the result will escalate or de-escalate the tensions with China, with DPP campaigning on China threat versus KMT steering clear.
Quote:
This call immediately signalled that we should brace for further high-voltage anti-China hype from the new British prime minister. When Sunak and Liz Truss fought to win the leadership of the Conservative Party, they indulged in a frantic competition of China-bashing to prove themselves the bigger China hawk to lure the Tory faithful.
R Sunak's FIL has made lots of money in Russia and China, still is apparently.
The UK does have military stationed in Australia. Australia is host to four British military bases: the Wyndham aerodrome in Western Australia, Williamtown in New South Wales, Woomera and Mawson Lakes, both in South Australia.[2] According to a Declassified UK report, the British military also has around 60 personnel stationed across the country. Around 25 of these hold defence attaché roles in the British High Commission in Canberra and at Australian Defence Department sites near the capital, such as the Headquarters Joint Operations Command at Bungendore.[1]
A further ten British military personnel are based at unspecified locations in New Zealand. Parliamentary data from 2014 showed their roles included working as navigators on a P-3K Orion aircraft, which is operated by the Royal New Zealand Air Force.[1][21][22][23]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overse...the%20country.
Declassified has found that the UK also has around 60 personnel spread across Australia. Some 25 of these hold defence attaché roles in the British High Commission in Canberra and at Australian Defence Department sites near the capital, such as the Headquarters Joint Operations Command at Bungendore.
IN additon British military are stationed in South East Asia too:
These include a naval logistics base at Sembawang Wharf in Singapore, where eight British military staff are permanently based. The base provides Britain with a commanding position overlooking the Malacca Strait, the world’s busiest shipping lanes which are a key choke point for vessels sailing from the South China Sea into the Indian Ocean.
The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has previously told Declassified: “Singapore is a strategically important location for commerce and trade.” Singapore’s most elite police unit is recruited by British soldiers and commanded by UK military veterans.
As well as having a naval base on the rim of the South China Sea, the British military has an even more central basing location in Brunei, near the disputed Spratly Islands.
The Sultan of Brunei, a dictator who recently proposed the death penalty for homosexuals, pays for British military support in order to stay in power. He also allows the British oil giant Shell to have a major stake in Brunei’s oil and gas fields. https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...-42-countries/
The UK is also helping Taiwan to defend itself from China as well:
The UK is determined to work with its allies to ensure that Taiwan can defend itself, British Prime Minister Liz Truss said on Sunday, a pledge that drew expressions of gratitude from Taipei.
“What I’ve been clear about is that all of our allies need to make sure Taiwan is able to defend itself, and that is very, very important,” Truss said in a CNN interview, when asked whether the UK was willing to match the US’ pledge last week to defend Taiwan militarily in the event of an attack by China https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/fro.../27/2003785985
The UK is playing an active role in striving to contain China in regards to Taiwan, and has a permanent military presence in South EAst Asia and Australia, and one of the motives is to contain China. It is a lie when you said: I don't think there is any appetite in Europe for a war with China, and the US policy is to support Taiwan in terms of arms and supplies but to stay out of any war, but that's up to the US.
BTW the UK is pissed off of what happened to Hong Kong with the Chinese Government asserting its increasing authority in Hong Kong since the UK gave up sovereignty on Hong Kong. The UK has attempted to politically interfere with Hong Kong, and that has pissed off the Chinese government. That one of the reasons China does not trust the UK.
With the New PM, he is an anti China hawk:
Sunak, who used aggressive anti-China rhetoric during his run-up for the post of British prime minister, is considered to be among the fiercest China hawks in the British political elite. In his first phone call with Biden, after taking charge of his new assignment, Sunak displayed the tone of his policy towards China by pledging to work closely with the US in the Indo-Pacific region to counter “China’s malign influence”.
This call immediately signalled that we should brace for further high-voltage anti-China hype from the new British prime minister. When Sunak and Liz Truss fought to win the leadership of the Conservative Party, they indulged in a frantic competition of China-bashing to prove themselves the bigger China hawk to lure the Tory faithful. https://mg.co.za/opinion/2022-11-20-...he-g20-summit/
BTW you were critical when Nancy Pelosi visit Taiwan, but guess who just made a visit to Taiwan???? the UK trade minister Greg Handshttps://www.theguardian.com/politics...lks-greg-hands BTW what Greg Hands said: Britain's minister of state for trade, told President Tsai Ing-wen during their meeting on Wednesday that "our relationship reaches beyond trade and investment.https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Chi...isit-to-Taiwan
Most allied countries have military overseas exchanges, military representatives at Embassies and other military working relationships, but this doesn't mean they are bases.
There are only 60 British personnel stationed in Australia, and around 25 of these hold defence attaché roles in the British High Commission in Canberra and at Australian Defence Department sites near the capital, such as the Headquarters Joint Operations Command at Bungendore.
The remaining 35 British personnel are most likely either part of a military exchange programme or are there due to agreements such as Five Eyes, and it should be noted that the Australian Embassy in London will be home to Australian Military Personnel, whilst there will be Australians at places such as Sandhurst, Shrivenham, Dartmouth, Cranwell, GCHQ and the The Defence Intelligence Fusion Centre at Wyton, which is the world's only hub where personnel from across the Five Eyes alliance.
The British and Australian Navy's have always worked closely together, and there are numerous exchange programs in terms of personnel.
It also should be noted that NATO's Allied Rapid Reaction Corps at Imijin Barracks in Gloucester includes personnel from over 23 countries, and the NATO Allied Maritime Command (MARCOM) at Northwood in North London also draws personnel from numerous NATO countries.
In terms of Sunak, he's been quite fair in relation to China, and is trying to foster warmer relations, as for Singapore, it's part of the Five powers alliance which includes Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore and the United Kingdom. So Britain is committed to the defence of Singapore.
Last edited by Brave New World; 11-26-2022 at 07:37 AM..
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