Western Heartlands (Clark/Powell, WY) (Cody: mineral rights, for sale, real estate)

[landbuyerwyidmt]

Hi all,

I am looking into some of the lots that are currently for sale in the Western Heartlands subdivision in Clark, WY and was wondering whether any of the issues in the subdivision that were mentioned in this forum several years back have been rectified.

Has there been any progress running power to the lots? Updates on the viability + quality of well water? Have new roads been cut and are existing roads being maintained?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[nm9stheham]

Are you buying for yourself for personal use?

[landbuyerwyidmt]

Originally Posted by nm9stheham

Are you buying for yourself for personal use?

Yes, that's correct. Hope to eventually build a small, probably off-grid, cabin there.

[nm9stheham]

OK. I did look at their website briefly. I saw the term 'contract to deed'. A poster here named Sunsprit has given very good explanations on how this works, and the pitfalls of this buying process. So can search his posts for that info. Or read here from the Federal Reserve about contract-to-deed: https://www.minneapolisfed.org/artic...tract-for-deed

Bottom line is that you have no deed to the land until you pay it all off, and if you miss a payment, the seller can repossess the property.... with your improvements. No foreclosure process, and no refund of land payments. You have to sue and show a good history of timely payments to have a chance to fight this off in court, if it happens. So that may be part of the story behind the 'buyer beware' thread. IDK if they would sell property with full payment or with a mortgage but I would not want to go with contract-to-deed.


And, their 'No Time Limit Guarantee' looks like a way to suck in the unsuspecting, basically saying: "Just sign here and send in your downpayment and choose you land when you get here!" Mmmmmm......

I scanned the covenants and one thing that jumped out on the first page was that there is an association (homeowner's association) but the seller's manage and control the association until 90% of the lots are sold. That 90% level is unusually high from my experience.... the HOA transfer of control to the homeowners typically occurs when 51% to 66% lots are sold. In this case, if the sellers elect to never sell the last few lots, then they might be in control of the roads forever, and do little to nothing. This makes me nervous, and it should you too.

And the covenants in general are not all that restricting..... which may be good or bad, depending on your desires and the neighbors actions. I've seen such properties become trashy with big hunting cabins, etc. They limit the minimum size to 1000' sq feet, but it can be a big pile of scrappy materials and other junk.

FWIW, there were some lands west of the main highway that had an oil well blowout about 10 years back, with some consequent well contamination. The state has stepped in to mange that situation. From the map, Western Heartlands does not look to be in the same area so that is probably not any issue for your prospective water well, but just be aware. There is gas and oil in the area with some wells near this property IIRC, and you ought to learn who owns the gas and oil and mineral rights under this land before you buy.

Not sure if it helps at all....

[Mister Torgue]

Contract to deed is a huge no-go for us personally. I would never even remotely consider it. This isn’t the early 20th century where people respected each other and had honor. Now those aforementioned qualities are scarce...

[ScottStielow]

Originally Posted by nm9stheham

OK. I did look at their website briefly. I saw the term 'contract to deed'. A poster here named Sunsprit has given very good explanations on how this works, and the pitfalls of this buying process. So can search his posts for that info. Or read here from the Federal Reserve about contract-to-deed: https://www.minneapolisfed.org/artic...tract-for-deed

Bottom line is that you have no deed to the land until you pay it all off, and if you miss a payment, the seller can repossess the property.... with your improvements. No foreclosure process, and no refund of land payments. You have to sue and show a good history of timely payments to have a chance to fight this off in court, if it happens. So that may be part of the story behind the 'buyer beware' thread. IDK if they would sell property with full payment or with a mortgage but I would not want to go with contract-to-deed.


And, their 'No Time Limit Guarantee' looks like a way to suck in the unsuspecting, basically saying: "Just sign here and send in your downpayment and choose you land when you get here!" Mmmmmm......

I scanned the covenants and one thing that jumped out on the first page was that there is an association (homeowner's association) but the seller's manage and control the association until 90% of the lots are sold. That 90% level is unusually high from my experience.... the HOA transfer of control to the homeowners typically occurs when 51% to 66% lots are sold. In this case, if the sellers elect to never sell the last few lots, then they might be in control of the roads forever, and do little to nothing. This makes me nervous, and it should you too.

And the covenants in general are not all that restricting..... which may be good or bad, depending on your desires and the neighbors actions. I've seen such properties become trashy with big hunting cabins, etc. They limit the minimum size to 1000' sq feet, but it can be a big pile of scrappy materials and other junk.

FWIW, there were some lands west of the main highway that had an oil well blowout about 10 years back, with some consequent well contamination. The state has stepped in to mange that situation. From the map, Western Heartlands does not look to be in the same area so that is probably not any issue for your prospective water well, but just be aware. There is gas and oil in the area with some wells near this property IIRC, and you ought to learn who owns the gas and oil and mineral rights under this land before you buy.

Not sure if it helps at all....

Agree. I went back and read Sunsprit Post.
I would not get Involved in this risks-and-realities-of-the-contract-for-deed.

[OneDawg]

Is this one of the many ranches up in Clark? And not associated with a legit brokerage firm in Cody or Powell?

[jody_wy]

contract to deed, lot of those have the grass leased out, or grazing it themselves. Wyoming is fence out state, and sometimes the contract won't let you fence the property till it is totally paid for. So, you get cows part of the year.

[landbuyerwyidmt]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

This will be a cash transaction so it doesn't seem like the risk of repossession should be a concern.

I've read quite a bit about the oil well blowout and associated well contamination, and agree that it seems unlikely to have affected this area... but who knows! Very good chance we will need to haul water seasonally anyway, based on the location of the lot and the general viability of water wells in the area.

More concerning to me thus far is the 90%+ lots sold requirement, prior to an HOA being established, and that HOA being the sole responsible entity for road maintenance. Meaning, essentially, the roads are unlikely to be maintained in the near future.

Confirming I am working with a legitimate realtor in Cody as well as a real estate attorney there, and am in the process of addressing the road maintenance concerns with them now. Should also mention that we own a lot in Driggs, ID that we will eventually be building a cabin on, as well, so we have been through the process of buying rural land before.

Has anyone been up to the area, or know anyone that's lived up there? As mentioned, I'm heading there in less than two weeks, but any added color you all can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[NW Crow]

Personally I would not consider dealing with that seller at all, given history and continuation of some or all issues. If one did, I would accept ZERO promises, verbal or written. Performance only. Total, immediate, before negotiation of sale and not expecting more.