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The weather is so unpleasant in Wyoming at times that the only recreation and entertainment available is often to go to a bar or someone's house and "party". I bet that is still largely the case in much of the state.
Only among the lowest elements of society. Most people only read about those elements, and that's usually when they're involved in an accident or crime.
I guess weather is an easy thing to blame. It can't talk back.
[quote=CptnRn;9844711]Good points. The alcohol abuse is seen as a common ordinary activity in much of the state. I thought it was ordinary growing up there, but realize now that my father and most of his friends were alcoholics, so we grew up with a lot of drinking in the home. My adoption of the practice along with smoking was just part of what I thought was the right of passage towards becoming an adult. I recall numerous of the "cool kids" in high school getting drunk and wrecking their cars, occasionally killing themselves or friends riding with them. I came close a few times myself. Sadly there wasn't much for teenagers to do in the evenings except drag main and the back roads drinking.
The weather is so unpleasant in Wyoming at times that for the most part, the only recreation and entertainment available even for adults is to go to a bar or someone's house and "party". I bet that is still largely the case in much of the state.
(snip)
[quote]
Interesting to see this kind of defeatist and negative attitude at work. I can see why you'd considered the ultimate "out" of this life.
OTOH ....
I'm surrounded by happy, healthy kids at my neighbor's farms and ranches. One religious sect here has some of the most well-mannered and well-behaved hard working children (ranging from 20's down to 6 year olds) I've ever seen. I've had the pleasure of watching how this trait has been trained by their parents, who I suspect were trained the same way ... and I remain in awe of how gentle and how guiding their parents are with their kids. Of course, there's no alcohol, no abusive language, and no tobacco in their lives tolerated by their religion.
But ... they're not unique. I've got other neighbors and friends who have the same positive outlook and face the same daily challenges we all face. Fulfilling needs, chasing wants, concerns for our futures, seeking recreational opportunites ... working with our livestock and our horses. And they brew some of the best home-brew beer and wine I've ever sampled ... so alcohol is certainly part of their lives.
None of them are out "draggin' main street" or "hanging out at the mall" ... and they're proud of their accomplishments and truly enjoy their lives and what they do. And their kids, who rarely go past high school ... well, I'd put them up against a lot of college grads for being "educated", well read, well spoken, able to calculate finances and economics at a pretty good level ... happy, functional & productive members of their families, society, and this country.
Me, I'm not founded in a religious background, so I don't have that in my life ... and yet, I can enjoy every lovely day here. Even if it's storming, raining, blue skies, or whatever ... there's stuff to do which I need and/or want to do. Indoor projects when the weather so dictates, outdoor projects when I can do them ... there's more to do than I can possibly ever finish. Along the way, my horses need to "hook on" and get ridden, our livestock needs attention, the dogs need attention, and my wife needs to enjoy a meal with me on the porch or in the greenhouse or down by the creek. If that doesn't do it, we've got planes to be flown, motorcycles to be toured, cars to play with, and a bunch of fishing gear that needs to get wet. Wow, and my boats need to be sailed, my bicycles to be ridden, and firewood to be gathered for the next winter.
That's why I'm baffled when some folks tell me that there's nothing to do, nothing to look forward to ... and they set that example and attitude for their children. There's so much to do, so much that can be done, so much you can do for others if you've got all your chores done .... you can choose to be dependent upon substances or you can choose to get involved in your life in a positive manner.
FWIW, I'm past a calendar age when most folks want to retire. I wouldn't know how to do it ... we're having too much fun on our farm and ranch, which was a conscious lifestyle choice for our housing dollars and business investment. And I just started another rep business ... gonna' hit the road soon to meet my clients and show them a new product line. Looking forward to some good times, good meals, and racking up some good sales with my friends. Just got finished with my first hay cut, wheat's gonna' combine in a few weeks, and then it's second cut time. Ain't life grand? you bet.
[quote=sunsprit;9845157][quote=CptnRn;9844711]Good points. The alcohol abuse is seen as a common ordinary activity in much of the state. I thought it was ordinary growing up there, but realize now that my father and most of his friends were alcoholics, so we grew up with a lot of drinking in the home. My adoption of the practice along with smoking was just part of what I thought was the right of passage towards becoming an adult. I recall numerous of the "cool kids" in high school getting drunk and wrecking their cars, occasionally killing themselves or friends riding with them. I came close a few times myself. Sadly there wasn't much for teenagers to do in the evenings except drag main and the back roads drinking.
The weather is so unpleasant in Wyoming at times that for the most part, the only recreation and entertainment available even for adults is to go to a bar or someone's house and "party". I bet that is still largely the case in much of the state.
(snip)
Quote:
Interesting to see this kind of defeatist and negative attitude at work. I can see why you'd considered the ultimate "out" of this life.
OTOH ....
I'm surrounded by happy, healthy kids at my neighbor's farms and ranches. One religious sect here has some of the most well-mannered and well-behaved hard working children (ranging from 20's down to 6 year olds) I've ever seen. I've had the pleasure of watching how this trait has been trained by their parents, who I suspect were trained the same way ... and I remain in awe of how gentle and how guiding their parents are with their kids. Of course, there's no alcohol, no abusive language, and no tobacco in their lives tolerated by their religion.
But ... they're not unique. I've got other neighbors and friends who have the same positive outlook and face the same daily challenges we all face. Fulfilling needs, chasing wants, concerns for our futures, seeking recreational opportunites ... working with our livestock and our horses. And they brew some of the best home-brew beer and wine I've ever sampled ... so alcohol is certainly part of their lives.
None of them are out "draggin' main street" or "hanging out at the mall" ... and they're proud of their accomplishments and truly enjoy their lives and what they do. And their kids, who rarely go past high school ... well, I'd put them up against a lot of college grads for being "educated", well read, well spoken, able to calculate finances and economics at a pretty good level ... happy, functional & productive members of their families, society, and this country.
Me, I'm not founded in a religious background, so I don't have that in my life ... and yet, I can enjoy every lovely day here. Even if it's storming, raining, blue skies, or whatever ... there's stuff to do which I need and/or want to do. Indoor projects when the weather so dictates, outdoor projects when I can do them ... there's more to do than I can possibly ever finish. Along the way, my horses need to "hook on" and get ridden, our livestock needs attention, the dogs need attention, and my wife needs to enjoy a meal with me on the porch or in the greenhouse or down by the creek. If that doesn't do it, we've got planes to be flown, motorcycles to be toured, cars to play with, and a bunch of fishing gear that needs to get wet. Wow, and my boats need to be sailed, my bicycles to be ridden, and firewood to be gathered for the next winter.
That's why I'm baffled when some folks tell me that there's nothing to do, nothing to look forward to ... and they set that example and attitude for their children. There's so much to do, so much that can be done, so much you can do for others if you've got all your chores done .... you can choose to be dependent upon substances or you can choose to get involved in your life in a positive manner.
FWIW, I'm past a calendar age when most folks want to retire. I wouldn't know how to do it ... we're having too much fun on our farm and ranch, which was a conscious lifestyle choice for our housing dollars and business investment. And I just started another rep business ... gonna' hit the road soon to meet my clients and show them a new product line. Looking forward to some good times, good meals, and racking up some good sales with my friends. Just got finished with my first hay cut, wheat's gonna' combine in a few weeks, and then it's second cut time. Ain't life grand? you bet.
Well said, sunsprit. For once, you and I are of one mind.
Last edited by Happy in Wyoming; 07-19-2009 at 06:00 PM..
Reason: typo
... if people realize their lives are worthless and hopeless, let them die. The government has no right to burden the taxpayers with them....
The trouble with that attitude is that people sometimes think their lives are hopeless for a time, but they usually recover and have full lives.
If I didn't have such a strong feeling against suicide, it would have been great to leave this world with my late wife. It certainly would have been easier on me. But I thought about all those who I knew, particularly my children and future grandchildren, and I sucked it up and went on. A year later I was living a "normal" life, and now, 13 years later, I have a new 10-year-relationship under my belt and have 5 grandkids and 2 step-grandkids that I'm crazy about. I hope to teach them all a thing or two before I go.
Nobody had to stop me from suicide because of my strong convictions, but had I been raised with different beliefs I might have attempted suicide. If the government had stopped me, I'd be very thankful to them today, and I'd still be paying taxes and doing my best to be a value to society.
I know you've heard it before, but it's still true: (in most cases) suicide is a long-term solution to a short-term problem. If you're intent on committing suicide over a long period of time, you're going to succeed, but if someone (government is fine) can stop you once, chances are good you will NOT try again.
Thank you for reminding me. One of the probable causes of suicide is having to share ones life with hate filled negative people. I'm sure having very many people like this in ones life would make one want to kill themselves if there was no other reasonable way to get away from this kind of influence. Honestly, if you find yourself living with someone like this get up and leave, move far, far away so you can remove this horrible negative influence from your life.
Interesting to see this kind of defeatist and negative attitude at work. I can see why you'd considered the ultimate "out" of this life.
OTOH ....
I'm surrounded by happy, healthy kids at my neighbor's farms and ranches. One religious sect here has some of the most well-mannered and well-behaved hard working children (ranging from 20's down to 6 year olds) I've ever seen. I've had the pleasure of watching how this trait has been trained by their parents, who I suspect were trained the same way ... and I remain in awe of how gentle and how guiding their parents are with their kids. Of course, there's no alcohol, no abusive language, and no tobacco in their lives tolerated by their religion.
But ... they're not unique. I've got other neighbors and friends who have the same positive outlook and face the same daily challenges we all face. Fulfilling needs, chasing wants, concerns for our futures, seeking recreational opportunites ... working with our livestock and our horses. And they brew some of the best home-brew beer and wine I've ever sampled ... so alcohol is certainly part of their lives.
None of them are out "draggin' main street" or "hanging out at the mall" ... and they're proud of their accomplishments and truly enjoy their lives and what they do. And their kids, who rarely go past high school ... well, I'd put them up against a lot of college grads for being "educated", well read, well spoken, able to calculate finances and economics at a pretty good level ... happy, functional & productive members of their families, society, and this country.
Me, I'm not founded in a religious background, so I don't have that in my life ... and yet, I can enjoy every lovely day here. Even if it's storming, raining, blue skies, or whatever ... there's stuff to do which I need and/or want to do. Indoor projects when the weather so dictates, outdoor projects when I can do them ... there's more to do than I can possibly ever finish. Along the way, my horses need to "hook on" and get ridden, our livestock needs attention, the dogs need attention, and my wife needs to enjoy a meal with me on the porch or in the greenhouse or down by the creek. If that doesn't do it, we've got planes to be flown, motorcycles to be toured, cars to play with, and a bunch of fishing gear that needs to get wet. Wow, and my boats need to be sailed, my bicycles to be ridden, and firewood to be gathered for the next winter.
That's why I'm baffled when some folks tell me that there's nothing to do, nothing to look forward to ... and they set that example and attitude for their children. There's so much to do, so much that can be done, so much you can do for others if you've got all your chores done .... you can choose to be dependent upon substances or you can choose to get involved in your life in a positive manner.
FWIW, I'm past a calendar age when most folks want to retire. I wouldn't know how to do it ... we're having too much fun on our farm and ranch, which was a conscious lifestyle choice for our housing dollars and business investment. And I just started another rep business ... gonna' hit the road soon to meet my clients and show them a new product line. Looking forward to some good times, good meals, and racking up some good sales with my friends. Just got finished with my first hay cut, wheat's gonna' combine in a few weeks, and then it's second cut time. Ain't life grand? you bet.
Excellent post, thank you for sharing these comments.
Once I got away from the negative influence of my father, I pretty much felt the same as you. There were too many excellent experiences left in life, to many things I still wanted to learn and do to consider taking an early out.
But I do want to point out that stress and hardship can effect a person physically, resulting in chemical imbalances that can lead to depression. This is as real an illness as any other medical condition. Modern medications can correct these imbalances and help people get out of this funk, and get back to an enjoyable productive life.
7 of the 9 top suicide rates by state are Rocky Mountain states, the other two are Nevada and Alaska. It's been like this for a while, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah have always been up around the top in suicide rates, along with Alaska and Nevada. I don't know about Nevada, but the other states I've mentioned have a similar mentality and similar charictaristics which factor in.
I have to say something about the "wind" or the "weather" contributing to the suicide rate in Wyoming. I am originally from Minnesota (lived there 19 years) and I can tell you that the winters in Wyoming are nothing compared to winters in MN. In MN the sun may not shine for weeks at a time, the snow accumulates and makes travel miserable the whole winter through...and when it's windy there, it's even worse because of the constant snow. I understand people who get seasonal affective disorder may have a higher risk, but since the sun shines here so often, even during winter...I have to say no, there must be a larger social reason for the high rate.
Only among the lowest elements of society. Most people only read about those elements, and that's usually when they're involved in an accident or crime.
I guess weather is an easy thing to blame. It can't talk back.
I beg to differ. I think that people who use meth a lot will eventually start to imagine the wind is talking to them. They hear voices in the wind. Although I've never done meth, I could see how that could happen. Same with coke and sometimes even weed.
...
I'm surrounded by happy, healthy kids at my neighbor's farms and ranches. One religious sect here has some of the most well-mannered and well-behaved hard working children (ranging from 20's down to 6 year olds) I've ever seen. I've had the pleasure of watching how this trait has been trained by their parents, who I suspect were trained the same way ... and I remain in awe of how gentle and how guiding their parents are with their kids. Of course, there's no alcohol, no abusive language, and no tobacco in their lives tolerated by their religion...
2 Corinthians 5:17(Whole Chapter)
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is anew creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
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