Alaska is a beautiful state- but you can't see Palin's Integrity from there (school, license)

[notreesininceland]

Originally Posted by Alaskapat528

What I was saying is the Pres does not make decisions by himself, you can almost describe them as puppets.

Do you think the CEO of a company makes all the decisions by himself? Backing up, how do you think a CEO operates? He appoints a staff, outlines the strategy, goals and direction the company must take. The staff them offer inputs, discussions take place and major policy decisions are taken by the CEO in consultation with his top advisors. But it is the CEO who makes the final call and who must bear ultimate responsibility. The staff then disperses and goes about with the business of implementing the policies laid out. Surely the Director of a unit within the company is not going to come back to the CEO for every little decision concerning his unit (that is why HE is Director, to take the lower level decisions himself).

Same thing with the President of the United States, his Cabinet and his pool of advisors and the entire Federal govt staff.

[notreesininceland]

Originally Posted by akck

So, do you think what he's done is helping or hurting? IMHO, he's making it worse by throwing money at it.

In response to your question: we don't know yet. As I said yesterday, the biggest economy in the world is not an ON-OFF switch. It will take time for the results to show and for us to assess them.

In response to your comment about "throwing money": this is ECON 101. In the dire situation we find ourselves in, where monetary policy has been completely expended (interest rates close to 0%), the only tool left in the govt's armoury is fiscal policy. Keynesian economics (after the great English economist John Maynard Keynes) tells us that the way out of the morass is for massive deficit spending by the govt. A stimulus is BY DEFINITION a spending strategy. What got us out of the Depression was the great spending programme (aka as World War II).

I suggest that you not rely on Fox News or any other television channel to get your economics fix. Paul Krugman's blog and twice weekly column in NYT is a good place to be. Krugman is a brilliant guy and won the Nobel Prize for Economics this year. He is also an unabashed liberal. To see what the other side of the fence thinks, you may take a look at Gregory Mankiw of Harvard (he was Chairman of W's Council of Economic Advisors). Then there is Nouriel Roubini (known today as Dr. Doom for he had foreseen this current situation 2 years ago). I am providing the links below for your ready reference -

Economics and Politics - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

Greg Mankiw's Blog

RGE - Nouriel Roubini's Global EconoMonitor

[notreesininceland]

Another great site for understanding the financial crisis -

Financial Crisis for Beginners « The Baseline Scenario

[akck]

Originally Posted by notreesininceland

In response to your question: we don't know yet. As I said yesterday, the biggest economy in the world is not an ON-OFF switch. It will take time for the results to show and for us to assess them.

In response to your comment about "throwing money": this is ECON 101. In the dire situation we find ourselves in, where monetary policy has been completely expended (interest rates close to 0%), the only tool left in the govt's armoury is fiscal policy. Keynesian economics (after the great English economist John Maynard Keynes) tells us that the way out of the morass is for massive deficit spending by the govt. A stimulus is BY DEFINITION a spending strategy. What got us out of the Depression was the great spending programme (aka as World War II).

I suggest that you not rely on Fox News or any other television channel to get your economics fix. Paul Krugman's blog and twice weekly column in NYT is a good place to be. Krugman is a brilliant guy and won the Nobel Prize for Economics this year. He is also an unabashed liberal. To see what the other side of the fence thinks, you may take a look at Gregory Mankiw of Harvard (he was Chairman of W's Council of Economic Advisors). Then there is Nouriel Roubini (known today as Dr. Doom for he had foreseen this current situation 2 years ago). I am providing the links below for your ready reference -

Economics and Politics - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

Greg Mankiw's Blog

RGE - Nouriel Roubini's Global EconoMonitor

Sorry, I don't watch Fox News except in passing when changing channels. Here's one I occasionally read:

Valentine Ventures

Refer to the Feb 27th entry. My throwing money reference follows his sentiments.

[notreesininceland]

Originally Posted by akck

Sorry, I don't watch Fox News except in passing when changing channels. Here's one I occasionally read:

Valentine Ventures

Refer to the Feb 27th entry. My throwing money reference follows his sentiments.

Please go here -

Krugman On The Financial Crisis And Public Spending : NPR

for a real economist. This link is from the page I gave in the post preceding.

[Alaskapat528]

Originally Posted by notreesininceland

Do you think the CEO of a company makes all the decisions by himself? Backing up, how do you think a CEO operates? He appoints a staff, outlines the strategy, goals and direction the company must take. The staff them offer inputs, discussions take place and major policy decisions are taken by the CEO in consultation with his top advisors. But it is the CEO who makes the final call and who must bear ultimate responsibility. The staff then disperses and goes about with the business of implementing the policies laid out. Surely the Director of a unit within the company is not going to come back to the CEO for every little decision concerning his unit (that is why HE is Director, to take the lower level decisions himself).

Same thing with the President of the United States, his Cabinet and his pool of advisors and the entire Federal govt staff.

Since I have worked for C.E.O.'s / Directors I am very well informed how the system operates. Don't insult people's intelligence by always making explanations, etc.

[notreesininceland]

Originally Posted by Alaskapat528

Since I have worked for C.E.O.'s / Directors I am very well informed how the system operates. Don't insult people's intelligence by always making explanations, etc.

In that case, why did you ask whether the President makes decisions etc? You should have known.

[Alaskapat528]

Originally Posted by quakinator

From my perspective I've seen a lot of political threads on many different forums and so far to me this forum and thread has been one of the most civilized I've seen. Everyone involved should take that as a compliment, I'm with Met, I enjoy these discussions as long as people take time to intelligently outline their rationale and respectfully disagree if it comes to that.

as long as people take time to intelligently outline their rationale and respectfully disagree if it comes to that.[/quote]

Goes for almost everyone on here.

[quakinator]

Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson

Absurd. It should have occurred to you the referencing GWB means the individual and his entire branch of government plus the like minded group that has had control of Congress for the past 8 years. It is not an individual I'm talking about... it's actually the block of idiots who elected those groups of people.

In type you can never assume. Please say what you mean, and mean what you say. I cannot divine that GWB actually meant the republicans and democrats including Barney Frank and Chris Dodd etc...and the last two years of democratic congressional control when you phrase it as GWB. And personal attacks aren't going to help in the discussion at all, we didn't elect them to do things like balloon the deficit, just like I'm assuming you didn't elect Obama to stifle jobs even further and redistribute wealth...or maybe you did, I don't know your motives or your "ideology."

Indeed, on an individual basis I blame people like you!
I am denigrating people who have put us in this spot due to stupidity and ideology, who vote for this type of thing again and again without concern for what happens as a result.

People like me? I voted my conscience as I assume you did. I have realized the error of the republicans, but it seems that the democrats are being led blindly by the rhetoric, one hand is giving and the other is taking away with Obama. Anyone who believes that what he has done so far (or plans to do) will actually help the middle class is going to be in for a rude awakening.

Here you are basically saying the policies that brought us to the current economic mess should be continued!Actually, "the government" runs a lot of things very well. It doesn't do so well when we elect the likes of GWB, but that has been corrected and now it's time to make things work again.
You haven't got even a smidgeon of a clue what the problems with medicaid are. (Incidentally, my daughter was appointed by HHS Secretary Michael Leavitt to serve on the President's Medicaid Commission in 2005 as the Alaska representative.)

Please let's get a list of things going that the government does do very well, I can think of one...weather prediction. I want you to name social programs that the government runs better than the private sector could or does. Any time the government meddles in the lives of people it's only hurting one to help another, or forced charity. You cannot force charity, it comes from the heart. Forced charity divides a people, like you see today. Charity needs to be individual and voluntary.

And please don't assume that I don't know the problems with Medicaid, you know nothing about me apart from me being a conservative. Or does me being a conservative give you license to immediately discredit everything I have to say about my experiences with the broken program?

[DreamChasers8]

Originally Posted by notreesininceland

Your utterance has no meaning. In a democratic system, the people elect their representatives and put them in charge of the country for a specified time. They convene again after 2/4 years to either re-hire or fire these folks they put up there. The "Government" is not some abstract, shadowy entity.

I'm sure Warpt knows that but was trying to be positive on such a negative thread...you shouldn't assume everyone is an idiot