Gun Laws in New Mexico (Albuquerque, Edgewood: attorneys, to live in, legal)

[ABQLifer]

I do not proclaim to speak for everyone on the Pro side of this issue, but I am an active hunter with the following viewpoints based on a lifetime of residency within this state:

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

John D.--
This is what I was wondering about when I posted before, wondering if this is a "Wild West" thing. Who are the "good guys" you are talking about? What makes you with your gun a "good guy" and someone else with a gun a "bad guy"? Is it a racial thing? Or a class thing?

There is no racial or economic class issue. I believe the "good guys" are simply ordinary citizens who do not to use their access to guns as a means for comitting crimes. The "bad guys" are just the opposite--criminals.

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

I believe in a more recent post you made it clear that your interest in carrying a gun with you is not for target shooting but for "safety"--your own and that of others, I would guess, in defense against people, not wandering wild animals. I think you also said that you and other people with guns can react faster than the police, who you don't seem to think do too much. Of course, maybe this sentiment was not expressed by you, but by someone else. In fact, now I think it was someone else who said that the police are slow to respond, and that citizens usually can do better themselves.

There are many diverse opinions and perspectives about the police formed on one's personal experience. However, I believe the spirit of the argument here is that it is never wise to be completely dependent on anything, especially personal safety.

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

In any event, I'm just so fascinated by this discussion..."liberals" and "democrats" are all lumped together as feeling and thinking one way about guns, and I would guess "conservatives" or "republicans" must be the label for the others...or "libertarians." These labels don't address the larger question of why you feel threatened or menaced by people.... Against whom do you feel the need to defend yourselves?

The need to defend one's self is pretty simple: For whatever reason or motivation, some people become criminals and then prey on those whom they perceive as incapable of defending themselves.

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

Other folks in this thread have talked about "bad parts of town" or violent crime like mugging, robbery, rape.... But have any of you really had that happen to you? To you. Not to "someone I know." To you. So now you need to defend yourself. Do you really think that having a gun will ward off "criminals" or whatever boogeymen you're imagining?

I don't believe that anybody should become a victim first before changing their way of thinking in terms of personal safety. On the other hand, it would seem logical that criminals pick and choose their targets based on the probability of whether or not that target is prepared to defend him or herself.

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

I don't think people should be "desensitized" to guns, as you suggest... If they were, then "criminals" certainly wouldn't be put off by your having one strapped to you. You might as well have a kitten in your holster.

I think the term "desensitized" here is intended for the general citizenry and not the criminals.

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

So, again, I'm just a crazy, nutty "anti-gun liberal" (probably a yellow-belly, too!) chiming in to again ask, is this not some kind of Wild West, "good guy" White Hat thing? Who are they bad guys you need to defend yourselves against? Hispanic people? Black people? Native American people? "Poor white trash"?... Who is posing such a threat to you that you need to protect yourselves?

I feel confident that I have already answered these questions, but feel free to ask for clarification on something I may have missed.

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

I know it's your right, I'm sure one of the posters here will point that out to me again. But we all have a lot of rights, some of which we don't take advantage, and others which, when we do try to assert them--like free speech--only make us get shunted off into a "free speech zone." Two miles from where the action is. So no one can see or hear us. How's that for rights?

I agree with your frustration. I don't think any of us here want to see any of our rights (First or Second) impeded or pushed out the way.

Originally Posted by schoenfraun

I'm not trying to stir the pot for the heck of it...just really, really trying to understand and be convinced. I don't get it.

Don't worry, we'll help you.

[LLD]

This forum is not for discussing the pros and cons of guns etc. That can go in the "Other Topics" forum. This is more for informational purposes on New Mexico. Please keep the discussion to information related to the laws about guns etc in New Mexico or I can move this to the "other topics" forum and you all can continue the discussion there. Thank you.

[schoenfraun]

Now this is good! A polite, thoughtful conversation on an issue that often gets people on all sides really confrontational or defensive. (And I think there are more than just two sides to this issue.)

I'm pretty naive, I guess, as I stated back on page 2 or 3 of this thread. I grew up in a fancypants suburb of Chicago, and I worked in the city of Chicago for two and a half years, as well as four years in the city of New Orleans. Both cities have a very clear divide along both class and racial lines which define what folks there call the "bad parts of town."

I worked in those bad parts of town with communities there and found them to be fantastic, delightful places of great people. There are a lot of guns in those places and a lot of violence, too--much more than where I was living in the city at the time, or where I had grown up in the privileged 'burbs.

It's possible that the gun-related crime there has something to do with licensure or proper training in gun-handling (or lack thereof), but I doubt it. I think it's the (sometimes) desperate circumstances in which many of the people in those areas live. Most people who live in such situations are neither desperate nor violent. They're just poor.

In my job, I often found myself alone in empty buildings which were undergoing renovation, and people were definitely aware that I was walking into these places alone. Someone could have come in there and attacked me, but no one ever did. I never met any "criminals" in those places--just hard-working people trying to make it through life like everybody else.

I do not believe that I am right and you are wrong. And, as I said, I appreciate your thoughtful replies. I am sorry to hear of the conflicts that you have witnessed and the risks you have had to take to protect yourselves or others from harm.

My suburban background and my urban experiences have been, for the most part, without any serious crime. Perhaps I'm just lucky, but I don't believe in luck. I really don't think crime is as bad as most folks worry it to be... It's always reported in the news because without bad news, there's nothing to report. No papers to sell, or commercials... No news is good news. I think crime fears are way out of proportion.

About twenty years ago, when I lived in St. Louis, someone I didn't know was mugged and shot on the doorstep of my apartment building. Where did that gun come from? Someone who had it lawfully, but did an unlawful thing? Or did that person steal it from someone else who had it lawfully? (Does it matter, really? The crime was committed because the dude had a gun. The college kid who was mugged wasn't doing anything stupid--he was ringing a doorbell at a friend's place in the city, but without a gun on him. Even if every other citizen on the street had a gun, there was no one there at the time, I guess, to help this kid.)

I am considering a move to NM for a new job. On the whole, I don't like guns.

I have spent three months during each of the last two years living in a much more rural, isolated area--the edge of Stanley/Galisteo, where many ranchers are being bought out by $$$ people from out of state. There's a lot of tension there. Way out there, at night, hearing the coyotes, I'll admit that at first I felt a bit scared. There was no one there. To me, that was far more scary than being alone in a public housing project in Chicago or New Orleans.

But if I had a gun, it wouldn't have made it any better. And, after all those months alone at night--with many people in the area knowing that I was out there, alone--nothing ever happened.

It's not reasonable to speculate what "could" have happened, or what I "would" have done if someone had ever tried to harm me in any of these situations I've described. But, my own personal feeling is that, even if had wanted to defend myself, I would not want to kill anyone, even if they had it in mind to kill me. If that's in opposition to "kill or be killed," or "survival of the fittest," then just call me the weakest. If that makes me dead, I guess I'd be dead. I'm not scared of that. Life is a finite thing.

So, based on my own personal experiences, I am quite comfortable with my gun-free life. But it also seems clear that many of you have had experiences that confirm your need to have a gun with you. As long as you know how to handle it--and you're not running around trying to irritate cops, being confrontational about it, as one poster seemed to be--I don't really have a problem with it.

I do have a problem with some nut breaking into your home or car while you're not there, stealing one of your guns, and then going out and killing or robbing someone with it. That can and does happen. If you did not have a gun in your house or car, it would be less likely to happen, the next time someone breaks in when you're away.

Anyway, I guess that's another problem altogether...

Many, many thanks for your posts to answer my question!

[cloudcroft]

LLD,

Is it okay to respond to schoenfraun here now or some other place?

I'm confused.

-- John D.

[LLD]

The thread is now in a different forum so discuss as you desire. I left the re-direct for a week so people could find the thread if they are interested in continuing the discussion.

The regular city-data forums are for informational purposes and the discussion had exceeded, more than once, information on gun laws in New Mexico, and had gone into people's personal views on guns etc. Guns, and gun control, is always a failry controversial, and sometimes confrontational issue. I don't have a problem with the discussion, just trying to follow the rules I have been given.

[kwilson20]

This weekend was a very good weekend. I OC for most of it. I also shot about 400 rounds in various guns and rifles I own. I did so without having to pay any dues for a rifle range or join any clubs. I drove my truck to a good spot with nothing in site for miles, set up my targets and went to town. I really enjoy NM laws and I always respect those laws and never ever try to break them. Did I mention I had a great weekend?

[english_teacher]

Originally Posted by ABQLifer

I do not proclaim to speak for everyone on the Pro side of this issue, but I am an active hunter with the following viewpoints based on a lifetime of residency within this state:



There is no racial or economic class issue. I believe the "good guys" are simply ordinary citizens who do not to use their access to guns as a means for comitting crimes. The "bad guys" are just the opposite--criminals.



There are many diverse opinions and perspectives about the police formed on one's personal experience. However, I believe the spirit of the argument here is that it is never wise to be completely dependent on anything, especially personal safety.



The need to defend one's self is pretty simple: For whatever reason or motivation, some people become criminals and then prey on those whom they perceive as incapable of defending themselves.



I don't believe that anybody should become a victim first before changing their way of thinking in terms of personal safety. On the other hand, it would seem logical that criminals pick and choose their targets based on the probability of whether or not that target is prepared to defend him or herself.



I think the term "desensitized" here is intended for the general citizenry and not the criminals.



I feel confident that I have already answered these questions, but feel free to ask for clarification on something I may have missed.



I agree with your frustration. I don't think any of us here want to see any of our rights (First or Second) impeded or pushed out the way.



Don't worry, we'll help you.

This is one of the most thoughtful, and quite witty, responses I've ever seen. As my posh Brit friend would say: Well done you!

[veggggies]

Am I reading this all wrong or is NM really way too laid back with gun laws? No background checks, waiting periods, licenses, etc.? That's so messed up! Just my opinion, of course! Any useful links that's tell me otherwise?

[_yb]

I bought a new gun a couple of weeks ago and they ran my background and I was sighting in my new rig within the hour. Great laws here.

[Chaparral]

A handy reference for NM gun laws can be found here (http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NMSL.pdf - broken link).

General synopsis (handguns):
Permit required for purchase? No
Background check? Yes (Federal)
Firearm registration? No
Owner licensing? No
Concealed Carry Allowed? Yes (with permit)

I think my answer to your question ("...is NM really way too laid back with gun laws?) would be "no". This is just my opinion, but I believe the laws are pretty much the way they should be. Also, I'm pretty sure the NM laws don't vary much from those set by the state of Virginia, although local municipalities may be more restrictive.

Chap