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None of those cultures are the dominant cultures in those nations. Go to the capital cities, where you'll find in language, architecture, etc things are pretty much based on what they have in Europe. In short these societies are Western societies.
Does that mean that everything in the culture of Latin America has European origin? No. You'd be lying though if you said Native or African cultures are given the same status in LATIN America as the DOMINANT LATIN/European culture.
This doesn't mean that the US or Latin America are IDENTICAL to what they have in Europe, but their societies are definitely offshoots of European societies.
This. I was trying to prove a point earlier by saying that Latin American countries have very mixed and racially diverse populations but their cultures are still partly Euro derived and it's not just because of a colonial past. Europe still influences a lot of their cultures. There is back and forth and continued immigration too. It's not as though Spain or Southern Europe's influence is over.
I was also saying that I noticed that a Dominican who is black would probably have cultural similarities and understandings with people from Spain or Southern Europe. There wouldn't be a world's apart disconnect.
I still stand by my initial assumption that a lot of the talk by some posters about whiteness and Europe in LatAm stems from deep insecurities that most probably aren't held as much by real Latin Americans who understand their roots a bit more and their diverse cultures. A lot of the talk by some posters reeks of Atzlan/Chicano Mecha talk.
"In daily usage, Brazilians use the ambiguous[67] term moreno, a word that means "dark-skinned", "dark-haired", "tawny", "swarthy", "Brown" (when referring to people), "suntanned".[68] "Moreno" is often used as an intermediate colour category, similar to "pardo", but its meaning is significantly broader, including people who self identify as black, white, Asian and Amerindian in the IBGE classification system.[69] In a 1995 survey, 32% of the population self-identified as "moreno", with a further 6% self-identifying as "moreno claro" ("light brown"), and 7% self-identified as "pardo". Telles describes both classifications as "biologically invalid", but sociologically significant.[26]"
According to that same wikipedia entry, Brazilians use moreno in daily usage. Pardo apparently isn't really used.
"In daily usage, Brazilians use the ambiguous[67] term moreno, a word that means "dark-skinned", "dark-haired", "tawny", "swarthy", "Brown" (when referring to people), "suntanned".[68] "Moreno" is often used as an intermediate colour category, similar to "pardo", but its meaning is significantly broader, including people who self identify as black, white, Asian and Amerindian in the IBGE classification system.[69] In a 1995 survey, 32% of the population self-identified as "moreno", with a further 6% self-identifying as "moreno claro" ("light brown"), and 7% self-identified as "pardo". Telles describes both classifications as "biologically invalid", but sociologically significant.[26]"
According to that same wikipedia entry, Brazilians use moreno in daily usage. Pardo apparently isn't really used.
I have heard the word pardo used in conversation by Brazilians.
Any Brazilians on this thread care to elaborate? Also, what was the content?
The context was at a wedding reception in California the groom married a bride that was half Mexican and a couple of the grooms relatives had flown in from Sao Paulo Brazil to attend and they were commenting in Portuguese on the bride's mother being parda not white. It was apparent they thought it was acceptable but not ideal.
I was also saying that I noticed that a Dominican who is black would probably have cultural similarities and understandings with people from Spain or Southern Europe. There wouldn't be a world's apart disconnect.
Do you even believe your own statement? I do not see those population sharing anything aside from speaking a romance language. You will say "sharing a romance language is a big deal", I will reply it's not. On paper it might be. In reality it's not, language family is only a marginal aspect of a human's culture. Music, food, phenotype, mentality, values, or just the way people carry themselves are very different. To be honest, I used to think like you, focusing on that Romance factor. That was until I came in contact with many Latinos and got to realize how VAST he cultural differences are. Southern Europeans have a cultural shock in Latin America, and the other way around is equally true. Pay yourself a trip through Europe and you'll see for yourself.
Do you even believe your own statement? I do not see those population sharing anything aside from speaking a romance language. You will say "sharing a romance language is a big deal", I will reply it's not. On paper it might be. In reality it's not, language family is only a marginal aspect of a human's culture. Music, food, phenotype, mentality, values, or just the way people carry themselves are very different. To be honest, I used to think like you, focusing on that Romance factor. That was until I came in contact with many Latinos and got to realize how VAST he cultural differences are. Southern Europeans have a cultural shock in Latin America, and the other way around is equally true. Pay yourself a trip through Europe and you'll see for yourself.
They probably have a cultural shock when it comes to witnessing the poverty, high crime, and other things associated with third world countries, but at the core, when a highly trained doctor from Europe, especially Southern Europe visits a Latin American country, and talks with other doctors and the upper echelons that make up a similar society to that of developed first world Europe, he will feel more at home and familiar than if he were to visit other more developed non-European nations such as Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai, Japan, or Saudi Arabia.
The people in the LatAM country will not only speak the language but share some culinary similarities, customs and such. Especially if it's a country in the Southern Cone. But even then in a country like the Dominican Republic it wouldn't be worlds apart strange.
Are you just flat out ignoring the fact that Europe still trades with LatAM and that trading not only do you get an exchange of goods but of culture too? Spanish people still have a relation with LatAM through many cultural, political and economic exchanges. Same with other countries of Europe including Italy and Germany.
I've visited LatAM several times. I've been to Mexico, Chile, Argentina, and the Dominican Republic. In all of these countries I've found them to be partly Euro derived and was surprised by how much Europe still has an influence whether through tourism, business/trade, or immigration.
I've been to Spain, Italy, France, and Greece, what surprised me the most was how much Italy reminded me of the Southern Cone cultures. What surprised me in Chile was how much of an influence the UK had as they share some similarities with the UK.
Are you just flat out ignoring the fact that Europe still trades with LatAM and that trading not only do you get an exchange of goods but of culture too?
Trade is a different story. China trades heavily with Africa, I doubt there is too much chinese culture influence there though. I feel that Iberian countries are mainly keeping the link with Latin American alive out of peculiar interest more than anything else.
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Originally Posted by radiolibre99
What surprised me in Chile was how much of an influence the UK had as they share some similarities with the UK.
I wasn't aware of any UK influence in Chile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99
how much Europe still has an influence whether through tourism, business/trade, or immigration.
That's like saying that since Brazil has a large Japanese community, Brazil is like Japan.
I was born in Switzerland and studied in Milan and Lisbon. I now live in a Latino dominated area in the USA, I thought that due to those past experiences it would be easy to relate to them. The reality proved me wrong. Latin Americans are a totally different ball game. The food they eat, the way they act, talk, look is nothing like the Southern European ways I know. Which is not very surprising, after all. People tend to restrict Latin America's history to its colonial past but all those lands existed before European conquest and were originally populated but Indigenous, though a lot of people overlook this fact.
Trade is a different story. China trades heavily with Africa, I doubt there is too much chinese culture influence there though. I feel that Iberian countries are mainly keeping the link with Latin American alive out of peculiar interest more than anything else.
I wasn't aware of any UK influence in Chile.
That's like saying that since Brazil has a large Japanese community, Brazil is like Japan.
I was born in Switzerland and studied in Milan and Lisbon. I now live in a Latino dominated area in the USA, I thought that due to those past experiences it would be easy to relate to them. The reality proved me wrong. Latin Americans are a totally different ball game. The food they eat, the way they act, talk, look is nothing like the Southern European ways I know. Which is not very surprising, after all. People tend to restrict Latin America's history to its colonial past but all those lands existed before European conquest and were originally populated but Indigenous, though a lot of people overlook this fact.
Some parts of Latin America have few indigenous (Argentina, Uruguay). The Spanish Caribbean is mainly European and African culturally. Brazil too is mainly European and African (of course there are natives, but their cultural contribution is below that of the European or Natives).
Places like Colombia, Venezuela, and Panama have substantial cultural contributions from Europeans, Natives and Africans.
I think you identify as Native, and you want to project Latin Americans as Natives oppressed by centuries of foreign colonialism.
But the reality on the ground is a bit different.
Take Mexico. Of course Mexico is not Spain. But it isn't the Aztec Empire either. You know the store of La Malinche, considered by some to be the mother of modern Mexico along with Cortes considered the father. The European/Spanish and the Natives ultimately combined to form a new society.
If anyone says any Latin American country is entirely culturally Spanish or Portuguese, they are very wrong. Denying African and Native cultures that shaped and continue to shape these countries is wrong. But to deny substantial European Catholic heritage and influence is equally wrong.
Southern European companies, particularly the Spanish, provide services throughout Latin America like telephone, banking, etc. They were able to operate in Latin America in ways that Northern European companies and even American companies could not.
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