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No, I was also talking about people of Indian descent that live in the USA, England, and Canada that are citizens of one of these countries too.
I met many Indians that are middle class and upper middle class in the USA, England, and Canada by the standards of middle class in those three countries and many of them do financially well in these countries.
So it is strange that so many Indians seem to do so well in USA, England, and Canada, but not in India itself.
I always thought India was a mostly middle class country with not that much poverty because there are so many things about India I know of that would make it seem like it would be like that. Also, almost all of the Indian people I met in the USA, England, and Canada love USA, England, and Canada but also seem to like India and are proud of their heritage instead of being ashamed of their heritage. They also don't make it seem like India has so much poverty that affect so much of the population there.
Also, I think there is a global standard for "middle class" which means it is the same income for whatever country it is in and I read somewhere India has 400 million middle class people(30% of the country's 1 billion-1.2 billion people)and growing 5% each year which is still a lot of people being middle class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSAA
Those Indian people you met may be middle class by Western standards, certainly not by Indian standards - they are part of a very small minority. In India a very poor American person (by US standards) would be considered rich compared to the VAST majority of the population. Despite all this, real estae prices in central Mumbai are comparable to Manhattan's. In Dharavi, possibly the world's worst slum, located very close to the centre, it's different:
"Dharavi (...) spread over an area of 175 hectares, or 0.67 square miles (1.7 km2). In 1986, the population was estimated at 530,225,[3] but modern Dharavi has a population of between 600,000[4] and over 1 million people.[5] Dharavi is one of the largest slums in the world.[5][6][7][8][9]" Dharavi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A 2007 report by the state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) found that 77% of Indians, or 836 million people, lived on less than 20 rupees per day (USD 0.50 nominal, USD 2.0 in PPP), with most working in "informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty."
Yes, as a Westerner this kind of poverty is hard to believe but it's the reality for most people in India.
No, I was also talking about people of Indian descent that live in the USA, England, and Canada that are citizens of one of these countries too.
I met many Indians that are middle class and upper middle class in the USA, England, and Canada by the standards of middle class in those three countries and many of them do financially well in these countries.
So it is strange that so many Indians seem to do so well in USA, England, and Canada, but not in India itself.
That's simply because these three countries are welfare states which actually care about their poor people, therefore no one in these countries are living in similar conditions to the vast majority of Indians. The Indians that go to Western countries are extremely rich by Indian standards, India's poor don't have enough money etc. to do it.
I always thought India was a mostly middle class country with not that much poverty because there are so many things about India I know of that would make it seem like it would be like that. Also, almost all of the Indian people I met in the USA, England, and Canada love USA, England, and Canada but also seem to like India and are proud of their heritage instead of being ashamed of their heritage. They also don't make it seem like India has so much poverty that affect so much of the population there.
India is definitely a third world country still, I'd say they are ashamed of their country and its poverty if they don't admit that everyone there but a small minority are extremely poor. That's a very elitist attitude IMO.
Also, I think there is a global standard for "middle class" which means it is the same income for whatever country it is in and I read somewhere India has 400 million middle class people(30% of the country's 1 billion-1.2 billion people)and growing 5% each year which is still a lot of people being middle class.
http://www.dbresearch.de/PROD/DBR_IN...000253735.pdf:
A McKinsey Global
Institute study using National Council of Applied Economic Research
(NCAER) data said 50 million people belonged to this group in 2005
if using the definition of real annual household disposable incomes
between 200,000 and 1 million rupees.
By "this group" they refer to the middle class (lower, middle, upper segments of the middle class), this is less than 5% of India's population. That's rougly between 4,500 and 22,500 USD today. By this definition even the upper middle class of India is poor by Western standards, Around 1,15 billion people have a household income of less than 4,500 USD annually, in the US this would probably be considered a (lower?) middle class income if it was 4,500 dollars per month...
04-30-2011, 06:10 PM
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To GSA:
Eh, you sound kind of racist towards Indians and I am not sure why you seem against someone who is Indian so I just won't argue anymore about this topic. (By the way I am Caucasian and not of Indian descent).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No, I was also talking about people of Indian descent that live in the USA, England, and Canada that are citizens of one of these countries too.
I met many Indians that are middle class and upper middle class in the USA, England, and Canada by the standards of middle class in those three countries and many of them do financially well in these countries.
So it is strange that so many Indians seem to do so well in USA, England, and Canada, but not in India itself.
I always thought India was a mostly middle class country with not that much poverty because there are so many things about India I know of that would make it seem like it would be like that. Also, almost all of the Indian people I met in the USA, England, and Canada love USA, England, and Canada but also seem to like India and are proud of their heritage instead of being ashamed of their heritage. They also don't make it seem like India has so much poverty that affect so much of the population there.
Also, I think there is a global standard for "middle class" which means it is the same income for whatever country it is in and I read somewhere India has 400 million middle class people(30% of the country's 1 billion-1.2 billion people)and growing 5% each year which is still a lot of people being middle class.
Eh, you sound kind of racist towards Indians and I am not sure why you seem against someone who is Indian so I just won't argue anymore about this topic. (By the way I am Caucasian and not of Indian descent).
I'm sorry, I really don't know what you mean. Where have I've been racist? I've just stated some facts.
Actually two of my best friends are from Sri Lanka (an island next to India), I'm by no means a racist and I really don't understand how I seem to be.
Hang on, was it because I called some Indian people you've met "extremely rich by Indian standards"? If they've had the resources to come to the US they probably are, though not necessarily by Western standards. It's simply a fact that the average Indian person is extremely poor compared to Westerners - but, luckily, more and more people step out of poverty and the Indian government seems to care a little bit about their poor now, building new apartments for slum dwellers etc.
It does seem that Indians who go abroad, do seem more educated, middleclass to upperclass, etc. I think partly because Canada/US in particular, have very strong laws promoting people emigrating there WITH professional career aspects and money in the bank.
Because they are so far away, it is almost impossible for a poor person to just try to 'flee' or 'go across a border'. So, it really is just the people who have just enough income and education, to make that kind of move.
On the other hand, my understanding of India, is that there is a massive amount of poverty. I think on all accounts, I've heard its quite visible. It's an image they are probably trying to shake, but still there nontheless.
It does seem that Indians who go abroad, do seem more educated, middleclass to upperclass, etc. I think partly because Canada/US in particular, have very strong laws promoting people emigrating there WITH professional career aspects and money in the bank.
Because they are so far away, it is almost impossible for a poor person to just try to 'flee' or 'go across a border'. So, it really is just the people who have just enough income and education, to make that kind of move.
On the other hand, my understanding of India, is that there is a massive amount of poverty. I think on all accounts, I've heard its quite visible. It's an image they are probably trying to shake, but still there nontheless.
Yes, that is mainly the reason, the indians that come here are usually doctors, lawyers, professionals etc. Also, many seem nice when you meet them, and most are, but they don't want to get involved with you. They are nice for show, but any further than that.. they will not do much more.
The poverty is ridiculous there, and its impossible to explain unless you see it. Any pictures you see of poverty in India, isn't exaggerations.
05-02-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09
Yes, that is mainly the reason, the indians that come here are usually doctors, lawyers, professionals etc. Also, many seem nice when you meet them, and most are, but they don't want to get involved with you. They are nice for show, but any further than that.. they will not do much more.
The poverty is ridiculous there, and its impossible to explain unless you see it. Any pictures you see of poverty in India, isn't exaggerations.
Wow, so interesting that Indians end up doing so much better in places like the USA, Canada, England, Australia, and Singapore(I heard all of these countries have lots of Indians and so many Indians in these countries seem to be middle class to those countries good middle class standards) but when it comes to India itself, most Indians don't do well there.
Why do you think this is the case? Because the Indians in the countries I mentioned that aren't India still seem connected to their heritage quite a lot so I assume it must not the heritage fault's for the poverty but must be something else. Maybe the government in India sucks? Is it related to that?
90% of the people of Indian descent I met that are American citizens in NYC are middle class. (And like 8 different families own homes in NYC). But like 80% of all the people I know in the USA that are immigrants/descendants from other countries with lots of poverty(Such as ALL the Latin American countries) are all still living in poverty while living in the USA too.
So because of this and some other things about India, I always assumed India itself had wealth and not so much poverty. It is very disappointing to hear this. I wanted to visit India and still would like to visit but definitely not nearly as much as how much I wanted to visit before.
Last edited by ; 05-02-2011 at 01:47 PM..
05-02-2011, 01:50 PM
Status:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09
Yes, that is mainly the reason, the indians that come here are usually doctors, lawyers, professionals etc. Also, many seem nice when you meet them, and most are, but they don't want to get involved with you. They are nice for show, but any further than that.. they will not do much more.
The poverty is ridiculous there, and its impossible to explain unless you see it. Any pictures you see of poverty in India, isn't exaggerations.
Many seem nice when you meet them, but they don't want to get involved with you? Hello! Your girlfriend is of Indian descent and she is involved with you. I had an Indian girlfriend before too. Most Indians outside India actually seem to integrate with many people. But of course, every ethnicity has their more racist and not as open minded bunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSAA
I'm sorry, I really don't know what you mean. Where have I've been racist? I've just stated some facts.
Actually two of my best friends are from Sri Lanka (an island next to India), I'm by no means a racist and I really don't understand how I seem to be.
Hang on, was it because I called some Indian people you've met "extremely rich by Indian standards"? If they've had the resources to come to the US they probably are, though not necessarily by Western standards. It's simply a fact that the average Indian person is extremely poor compared to Westerners - but, luckily, more and more people step out of poverty and the Indian government seems to care a little bit about their poor now, building new apartments for slum dwellers etc.
Sorry for OT.
Oh, I apologized then. I thought you were being racist. It was just how you seem to like to say negative things about India and it was other things you said and not what you mentioned.
So are your two best friends from Sri Lanka that live in the USA or Canada middle class here?
That is good to hear that poverty is diminishing for the people that live in India itself. But they could always come to the USA, Canada, England, Australia, or Singapore and become rich in those places since they are mostly likely to become rich there than their own country.
people can't understand any place/country without visiting it. I have already visited Mumbai and had lots of fun in night. but can't compare it with other countries night life style.
An old thread that I began, and now I've been to Mumbai!
I really enjoyed Mumbai a lot, far more than I thought I would.
But for nightlife, it's 'interesting', but I wouldn't say 'guaranteed fun', particularly if I was by myself. It was really easy to meet other travelers though, and really enjoyed their company there. Mumbai is interesting, for sure.
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But like 80% of all the people I know in the USA that are immigrants/descendants from other countries with lots of poverty(Such as ALL the Latin American countries) are all still living in poverty while living in the USA too. 
