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This thread and many of the people commenting in it are absolutely ignorant. You all have the internet and various other resources at your fingertips to educate yourselves on a topic (that many of you clearly know nothing about) before commenting, yet for some reason rampant ignorance runs wild left and right.
Would you really like to know why Afghanistan hates the people that are trying to "help" them? Let me begin...
Since the 1970's (and you can go back before that even to read of turmoil upon turmoil) Afghanistan has been nothing but battleground for major world powers, namely the Soviets, the U.K., the U.S.A. and N.A.T.O. as a whole right up until now. Multiple groups including ethnic Afghans and peoples from the surrounding countries have been driven in and out of their homelands for decades and decades due to war and instability caused by foreign powers and perpetuated by corrupt governments ruling the country during limited times of "peace" as well. Generations upon generations of people have died, leaving homeless children to fend for themselves, as nobody else has the amenities or want to take in others as it is already hard enough to survive and provide for ones own family as it is. Those that do live are those that have watched their homes be constantly destroyed, their families torn apart, and their dead left behind only to migrate from one region to the next to find the same chaos and turmoil happening there. These people are largely uneducated; emotionally unstable, religiously and ethnically persecuted and terrorized by foreign powers utilizing military strength beyond belief or comprehension all in the name of what each individual nation or alliance believes is right or beneficial for itself; not for the peoples of Afghanistan or neighboring regions. People criticize the citizens of this region as all being blood thirsty monsters in the name of radical, extreme Islam but that is not the case; far from it. These people are not terrorists, these people are not radicals, they are the result of the world that has been created and shaped for them, not by them. Both internal and external conflict plagues this nation and its people beyond belief. The rich become more extravagantly wealthy while the poor cannot even become poorer; as rock bottom beyond all belief has been the status quo for many since birth. Our two worlds could not be more different if they tried. The worst life in western society is nothing compared to the hardship endured by these people for what is now going on 40 years when dealing with just modern history. And you wonder why nobody there wants foreigners present under the guise of helping to build roads, schools and other amenities that could have been stably in place decades ago if not for the very nations now eager to "help" running things further into the ground than they already were. All they have seen are the Americans, the British, the Russian, numerous others as well and militant groups of their own create widespread conflagration and turmoil.
There is no food, there is no healthcare, there is no freedom, there is no education (literacy in the entire country is below 30% - that combined with first hand experience of foreign destruction makes the deduction that foreign = bad, easy to reach for most Afghans), there is no help.There is just an endless cycle of extreme poverty, death, destruction, chaos, instability and terror at the thought of yet another foreign power exercising their might upon these people who want nothing more than to be left alone by both their own government and others to rebuild their own future and shape their own destiny for once. Not to mention, the vast migration of people has left the country in such shambles that even basic communication between people cannot occur as a result of the various languages and dialects brought about from widespread conflict. The problems facing this country are beyond comprehension and I don't believe they'll ever be solved unfortunately as a result.
It's easy to sit in the comfort of your own home, even if impoverished in a first world country, typing on your computer about how you're unable to fathom why the Afghan people want nothing to do with foreigners or aid from outside. You might be struggling to make ends meat and provide for your family or a myriad of other things that we of Western civilization consider "hardship" - but none of us have ever watched our homeland destroyed multiple times, our families slaughtered by foreign powers, been forced across barren, mountainous terrain on foot for weeks in hopes of finding peace in a refuge camp where home is a tattered cloth over your head and a cold dirt floor; if you do not starve to death or fall victim to landmines scattered throughout the country first. People in America shudder at the thought of the slums in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, etc when in reality; these places and their severe problems would be a dream come true in terms of stability for people that have gone through what many Afghans have. How's that for perspective.
Seriously people, turn off CNN for 10 minutes and pick up a damn book or read something truthful, factual and informative for once instead of wondering why nobody there wants the glorious nation of America or somewhere else to come in and band-aid everything and everyone they just obliterated and murdered. These people are not their government or ruling party anymore than the average American citizen is George Bush or Barack Obama. All they have seen is foreign domination; and anybody who has lived through that nightmare, hellish hardship that 99% of us cannot even fathom is perfectly entitled to the hate, anger and animosity that they feel.
You give them too much credit. Perhaps you should read Charlie Wilson's war and his attempts and success at befriending the Afghans, teaching them how to fight the soviets with billions of covert US aid through the CiA. You should also read how, precisely, the Afghans treat each other. They are tribal and hold grudges forever much like the Balkan states. They are NOT united and even prior to our covert actions and success to derail the soviet union in the 80's we were well thought of in the 50's and '60's when we built dams and power substaions for them
In short, they are not as afraid of our porn, alcohol and western ways as they are with messing with the natural tribal order of things. It appears the Afghans can be bought. And we proved it. Through Charlie Wilson, we were able to finally get them the stinger missile which until then, was the dream of every afghan troop armed with an Enfield rifle or perhaps, an AK 47. They didn't always have that weaponry. We bought it for them. The stinger, if you recall, was/is capable of downing a Hind helicopter. A brutish vehicle that can withstand great punishment from small arms and carry upwards of 100 rockets. Enough to wipe out most colums and companies of troops.
That in turn, forced Soviet air operations to prosecute their war at 10,000 feet, give or take, to avoid the infamous US stinger. They were no longer as effective in pursuit, or defense of their own columns and the afghans began to have a field day with them. Helicopters are not nearly as combat effective at such heights. Pilots were spending too much time avoiding a shoot down than fighting. Beat the swiss made oerkilons...too big and too hard to haul in ammo. Stinger is shoulder fired and almost any afghan can operate one. 5 years later and the soviets called it quits. According to the book, whenever they caught a soviet alive, they would basically torture him, fornicate with him and THEN kill him.
No, i don't think "morals" were anywhere near the top of their list. Revenge was. They do this to tribes they don't like, foreigners are behind that. But, they WILL fight as the last 30 years have proven.
As much as most of us despise Hollywood antics and political positioning, Afghani's are more concerned about safety, their way of life, and their poppy fields which ARE the world's heroin supply...legit or otherwise.
Put your tampon in. The US is only thought of in a dismal fashion whenever we kill them accidentally in the name of peace or, burn their equvalent of the bible. Even with the 7 recent deaths, MOST afhghani protests ended PEACEFULLY even though only ONE line regarding that fact was included in the article of today's WSJ. Most of Afghanistan would welcome peace in any form so long as those who provide it let them go back to the tribal way of things.
Now THAT you could argue should/would be the basis of a debate regarding whether or not, we should be there at all. We really aren't as bad as those in Hollywood might sniff from a limousine. We, as a country really do try to help people and I have yet to meet the Marine who is holding down an Afghani and shoving alcohol down his/her throat or, dropping porn DVD's off as souvenirs? I am quite confident they have and continue to have access to such items for a long, long time.....way prior to our arrival.
As far as your crack on our soldiers, I am willing most would rather be here sticking a boot up your rear while shoving a copy of a few good men in your hands so you too can learn to appreciate the comfort they provide you while spending less time critisizing the way in which they provide it?
Thanks for your learned details on this subject, which I have no quarral with, until you got to the part where US Marines blindly taking orders from the Military/Industrial complex somehow have provided me with some kind of comfort. I've been watching since WWII, and I have yet to see any threat to my comfort that has been defused by any American in uniform overseas. When the Taliban can muster enough armed and trained and supplied occupation forces that they can land on our shores and impose their order at gunpoint on American life and force American women to wear burqas or be stoned to death, I will be thankful enough to the marines who stop them. Until then, I fail to see how they are providing my comfort. (By the way, you seem to be knowledgeable enough to answer this question. Just how many men would it take a foreign power to militarily occupy the US and maintain their logistical support in the face of expected American military defense and resistance? Nobody ever seems to be willing to answer that question for me.)
Otherwise, you have articulately made my point for me. What the Afghans want, and are willing to fight for, is quite different from what they would get if the US prevailed in "nation building". The Marines are not passing out alchohol and porn in Afghanistan, and it is sophomoric to interpret my words that way. What the Marines are doing is laying a groundwork for a western market economy in which the American purveyors of such products can freely distribute them, unencumbered by Koranic law to the contrary.
What, exactly, do you see as the long-term goal of US forces in Afghanistan, which can be brought about through our military adventurism there?
Why are the people of Afganistan so mean and cruel to those nations trying to help them?
Yes, I read where Korans were burned, cause they had other things written in them...
And how the procedure was done improperly...
an apology has been given...yet Afganistans continue to rage and riot, and hurt and kill innocent people who had nothing to do with it...why?!!!
Is Islam that dm unforgiving??!!!
Islam seems to fester more hate and resentment than love...
Is Islam a religion of hate or love? which is it??
It's always the same crap...other countries send their youth to die, defending the freedom of Afgan citizens, and then let one thing go wrong, and the Afgans resort to acting like wild apes...totally uncivilized barbarians...
And just start killing any and everything in their path....
And yet Islam is suppose to be a religion of 'peace'?....
I'm tired of hearing that crap...I see with my own eyes on the news it's not a religon of peace!
I see it's a religion of hate and intolerance...destroy and kill anything that doesn't agree with it...
I say the U.S. and every other country pull out now...and let them go back to their ways...
And if future famines and earthquakes hit...just stay the heck out...if they hate the U.S. so bad...than stop taking our money and funds, and stop allowing our youth, our families members to die for their youth, and their families...
I've never seen such an ingrateful nation...and we should be done with Pakistan too...
An ungrateful nation? We invaded their nation, we are occupiers- they naturally are not going to like having us there, and anything we do that is offensive is going to spark outrage because of the fact that they don't want us there in the first place. And the Koran burning thing, you have to understand how special that book is to them- a simply apology is not enough, they see that book as god himself.
Basically let's put it this way- if a few terrorists had been trained here in the US and carried out some kind of attack overseas, prompting another country (Let's say China) decides to invade the US to try to stamp out those terrorists, and ends up staying here for 10 years as occupiers, accidentally bombing homes of citizens from time to time, killing a few of our family members accidentally when trying to get at bad guys who may or may not be hiding out in one of our towns- wouldn't you be on edge all the time, just waiting for a good excuse to riot and show them how angry you are at them?
An ungrateful nation? We invaded their nation, we are occupiers- they naturally are not going to like having us there, and anything we do that is offensive is going to spark outrage because of the fact that they don't want us there in the first place. And the Koran burning thing, you have to understand how special that book is to them- a simply apology is not enough, they see that book as god himself.
Basically let's put it this way- if a few terrorists had been trained here in the US and carried out some kind of attack overseas, prompting another country (Let's say China) decides to invade the US to try to stamp out those terrorists, and ends up staying here for 10 years as occupiers, accidentally bombing homes of citizens from time to time, killing a few of our family members accidentally when trying to get at bad guys who may or may not be hiding out in one of our towns- wouldn't you be on edge all the time, just waiting for a good excuse to riot and show them how angry you are at them?
No!
It's called maturaty and perspective...
And it's called not allowing any book be it the bible or Koran, to fog my senses...
The Afgans speak with two tongues...they want us to be there to bring about social change and freedom, beg us to stay (under the table), yet aren't willing to let go of such primative ways and emotions and concepts to help themselves...
Some books were burned, so what...what if Americans acted as crazy and ramsacted every mosque in this nation after 9/11 or any other incident?
It's time for Afgans to grow up...simple and plain...and I'm tired of people making excuses for that type of behavior...
We Americans are sick of seeing our own relatives, sons, daughters, fathers, uncles, die for Afgans...give our lives for their freedom, just to see them revert back to hateful cut throat ways, and hurt, harm, kill those who had nothing to do with the Koran incident...
I say withdraw, and let that nation decend into whatever chaos they want...let the taliban come back and rule, and throw burkas on all the women...and continue blowing up ancient monuments left there by other civilizations...
Just don't ever ask us for help ever again...turn to China or Japan or Singapore next time they need help...
An ingrateful nation they are...plain and simple...
I just wish our own government would invest half the time and resorces they've wasted over there, in our own nation...
Because the U.S isn't in Afghanistan for those reasons, and everybody knows it.
I'm not defending Afghan culture or anything, but the U.S only has it's own interests in mind with this, as with all other occupations.
NOT TRUE. Have you not heard of this book which was THE #1 New York Times nonfiction best-seller, every week, for an entire year ?
The Afgans speak with two tongues...they want us to be there to bring about social change and freedom, beg us to stay (under the table), yet aren't willing to let go of such primative ways and emotions and concepts to help themselves...
It's the US politicians who speak with two tongues. The afghans have been, for the most clear as can be, they don't want the US there. The US isn't there because they're begging us "under the table." Damn, man you're embarrassing.
The OP's question is based on the assumption that the people of Afghanistan are mean and cruel, and then asks why they are. Yet, absolutely no evidence was offered that that is the case, and not a single post that followed has provided any evidence that the Afghan people are mean and cruel.
Afghans regard their Koran with a reverence that is similar to the reverence in the USA for the American flag. How would Americans respond if foreigners burned the flag in the USA?
What do any of you know about the morality or the tolerance or the innate kindness of "the people of Afghanistan"? Where are you getting your information? Who objected to the burning of the Korans? By whom was their objection expressed? Who is the spokesman who represents the view of the people of Afghanistan? How do you know whether Americans are welcome, in any capacity, by the people of Afghanistan?
jtur88,
Are you inferring that if, say, an Albanian came the US and burned the American flag that Americans would find the nearest Albanian embassy and proceed to kill people?
Just want to clarify.
jtur88,
Are you inferring that if, say, an Albanian came the US and burned the American flag that Americans would find the nearest Albanian embassy and proceed to kill people?
Just want to clarify.
A better example would be
If the Albanian army came, bombed your country, supported some rebels in the north and enacted regime change, then propped up some crooked politicians while at the same clumsily trying to destroy an insurgency by overwhelming might which results in the death of many Afghans and the destruction of a lot of the land... Then one of these soldiers laughs and sneers and burns America's holy book or something like that. Then maybe yeah, Americans would get a little fed up and storm some embassy and bash some heads.
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