U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-03-2014, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Czech Republic
2,384 posts, read 5,845,380 times
Reputation: 796

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalmain View Post
Please not communism unless you want more suffering and death. Learn from others mistakes. There has to be another way.
Well of course it is not good, but for a country like the Philippines, there is no other way. Look at the politicians, each of them take like 300 million for their own pockets. If the government is tough, they will be afraid to do so and those 300 million could go to infrastructure. Also, with the gap between the rich and the poor, it is one way to make everyone else the same.

Last edited by Hermosaa; 04-03-2014 at 06:19 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-03-2014, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Southern US
162 posts, read 194,805 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
May i know metro manila's wealth pattern? I know tondo is slums but where does the poor people really concentrated? jakarta is also a city of contrast (partly because it have horrible planning) you may drive and see beautiful area filled highrises and to turn to the intersection to see poor area, in jakarta the rich mostly live in south jakarta and while the rich chinese lives mostly at rich district of pantai indah kapuk in the north, surrounded by poor housing, the chinese has always been historically dominant in west and north jakarta explaining their dominance there and it was also the former commercial center before shifted central-south, and at the same time with rapid urbanization the area quickly turned to large extensive slum and is now jakarta's poorest area.
I have studied Manila a lot and remember a lot off my heart. Tondo straight down to just north of the city centre is all slums or low income neighborhoods. Caloocan right beside it is also this kind of thing. Malabon which is between Calocaan and tondo is another. Then the east half of Quezon near the reservour is another. Also, all of Taguig on the south side of the highway. Then you have the western extreme of Makati through Pasay. Pasig city has some too.

The rich neighborhoods stand miserably contrasting to the poor that surround them. They live in their bubbles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2014, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Southern US
162 posts, read 194,805 times
Reputation: 58
I see nothing being mentioned at all about the anti-dynasty bill. So I take it that destroying the clans aint what nobody wants to even think about in the gov.

My guess is that since the president himself is one of these and the vice president is a binay- a strong opponent of the bill and the house as well as the senate are totally flooded with clan-dynasty members, this thing is gettin bogged down for sure. They are tranquilly passing a gender equality bill and talking about other things like police pensions and a whole load of other stuff.

I take it that they are not going to pass a bill and stop dynasties in the Philippines.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2014, 07:14 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,667,247 times
Reputation: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermosaa View Post
Well of course it is not good, but for a country like the Philippines, there is no other way. Look at the politicians, each of them take like 300 million for their own pockets. If the government is tough, they will be afraid to do so and those 300 million could go to infrastructure. Also, with the gap between the rich and the poor, it is one way to make everyone else the same.
If you're talking of Marxism, then that's just jumping from the frying pan into the fire. It didn't work out in Russia or even China, so why should it work in the Philippines?

A form of authoritarian regime that is not corrupt will do some good. Maybe a leader like Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew will be good, but there are hardly any present politicians who come even close. Instill some discipline and responsibility among the poor, educate the poor so that they can be productive.

The way it is now, of course the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. A well-to-do family in the major cities mostly have 2 to 3 children, and the people in the slums have more than 7 children! Even if that family is in a very developed country, I don't see any hope of ever providing a quality of life (good education, sufficient food nutrition) the children need to get them out of poverty with family sizes that big.

The Philippines lag behind in manufacturing because it is not blessed with petroleum. Power and transportation costs are just too high. Just getting raw materials in from other countries or even from other islands cost a lot. A lot of the things sustaining the Philippines now are in the service sector with labor (as in people working overseas) being the largest export.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-04-2014, 01:08 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 8,996,337 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
May i know metro manila's wealth pattern? I know tondo is slums but where does the poor people really concentrated? jakarta is also a city of contrast (partly because it have horrible planning) you may drive and see beautiful area filled highrises and to turn to the intersection to see poor area, in jakarta the rich mostly live in south jakarta and while the rich chinese lives mostly at rich district of pantai indah kapuk in the north, surrounded by poor housing, the chinese has always been historically dominant in west and north jakarta explaining their dominance there and it was also the former commercial center before shifted central-south, and at the same time with rapid urbanization the area quickly turned to large extensive slum and is now jakarta's poorest area.
The areas encircled in green are the business districts and upper-class areas. The major slum areas are in the Northern part of the metro along the Bay- Manila, Caloocan, Navotas, and Malabon. While the southern areas are generally nicer


The northernmost circle on the map includes Eastwood City & Ortigas

Eastwood
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...ps82173369.jpg

Ortigas
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...psf6b277f4.jpg


The middle circles is the nice side of Makati and Bonifacio Global City

Makati
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...psab491582.jpg

BGC, a work in progress
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...okie/bgccc.jpg


And then the southernmost circle is Alabang. It' just a big suburb. Houses tend to look like these
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...ie/1993_lg.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...ookie/ayaa.jpg

I didn't include Manila Bay on the map but it's turning into a really nice area. It's more of an entertainment area rather than a place to live.

Last edited by elnina; 04-07-2014 at 11:50 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-04-2014, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Southern US
162 posts, read 194,805 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
If you're talking of Marxism, then that's just jumping from the frying pan into the fire. It didn't work out in Russia or even China, so why should it work in the Philippines?

A form of authoritarian regime that is not corrupt will do some good. Maybe a leader like Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew will be good, but there are hardly any present politicians who come even close. Instill some discipline and responsibility among the poor, educate the poor so that they can be productive.

The way it is now, of course the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. A well-to-do family in the major cities mostly have 2 to 3 children, and the people in the slums have more than 7 children! Even if that family is in a very developed country, I don't see any hope of ever providing a quality of life (good education, sufficient food nutrition) the children need to get them out of poverty with family sizes that big.

The Philippines lag behind in manufacturing because it is not blessed with petroleum. Power and transportation costs are just too high. Just getting raw materials in from other countries or even from other islands cost a lot. A lot of the things sustaining the Philippines now are in the service sector with labor (as in people working overseas) being the largest export.
I was going to ask why the heck the Philippines is cursed with such low manufacturing. Take a look at this. Notice how the Phils is the only heavily populated country that is NOT in this manufacturing competiveness report at all with many small and seemingly not so competitive natoins still squeezing in. In addition, Bangladesh and Pakistan as well as some european countries get used for manufacturing, so the Phils really must be far behind indeed: http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-...I_11292012.pdf

I wondered if the lack of usable port space was another factor along with no rail going SW from Manila, only the rail to the SE and that area is quickly saturating with stuff already. I don't know if anyone noticed, but it seems to me like the Philippines is unable to expand ports any more because everything around the existing ones is already developed with power stations, other developments, dense urban centres as well as a huge arc of swamp and fishing grounds around almost the entire bay. So they can't export more because there is nowhere to build ports (I am asuming). Many countries like Vietnam and China have kms and kms long chains of ports so they can do what they want. Philippines would need even more ports because it does not have the supply chains so even more ports are required but they don't have any space for them. so seems like huge population is actually working against a manufacturing seeking country for once.

Another thing to note is that there are so many people in the Phils, almost a 3rd of the continental USA and soon to be more than 3 times of Canada on a tiny resource starved island and if they were to try and industrialise and get all these people out of the cramped setting with low energy use, there would be an epic space and power crisis because the Phils barely even has the room left in Metro Manila for these people to be spread out in a normal density, especially with the mountains, lakes, watershed reserves, swamps and stuff all effectively blocking them off and the power is not there to effectively power that many people. So I guess they will remain a low energy use country that is stuck in this low end service platform, which means poor because it takes huge investment and industrialization to lift what will soon be 115 million, mostly poor to standards like in Canada.

You know they are committing to indefinitely low wages when they are literally building their country on outsourcing and scrapping most manufacturing prospects. they refuse to accept the low end manufacturing, but the truth is, every country has to climb the manufacturing ladder to rise up like China and Vietnam did or are doing. Phils refuses, so they will stay poor I guess. They choose to only do electronics. But guess what? This is such a competitive industry where the US and Korea are screaming ahead with new technology, the Phils will always lag light years behind because even a slightly incompetent country like Japan starts to lose to competition. In addition, this sector costs way to much to become competitive in AND most importantly, it is one of them main industries that is headed for predominantly automated production meaning that with major technological advances and this automation, they will just flip the Phils the finger when they ask them to bring production of any electronics to the Phils. And Indonesia and India are sapping up the little space to be competed over while the US is hoarding more of it back to their homeland. Industrial zones are required for any major EMSs (that are responsible the the vast majority of electronics) to even consider setting up and the Phils doesn't provide that so they will always say no. So Phils is set up for major disappointment and competition it can't handle cuz there is no way they can compete in the electronics industry, especially when they refuse to start working their way up from the bottom of the manufacturing ladder like all countries had to do. I think their isolation from the mainland also kills them because even Myanmar and Cambodia absorb any excess industry that China wants to throw out. I think the huge vulnerability to natural disasters like earthquakes and typhoons is what is also turning away more investors and also keeps nuclear from saving them from an energy crisis.

Also, agricultural needs will only go up and already what remains of agriculture-usable land comprises a limited portion of Luzon with huge mountains occupying a mother load of the rest of it, so they will be fighting just for land to keep to grow food with rising food import costs. So they will have no room for industrial expansion with the urban sprawl and agriculture space competing for the land that lakes and mountains don't occupy. A country needs extensive space for factories and ports and needs to be competitive energy wise and the Phils fails miserably in all 3 so I guess we can expect little change.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-04-2014, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,520 posts, read 9,399,709 times
Reputation: 6667
Who are the families that make up the "dynasties" in the Philippines? Do they tend to be from the same ethnic groups and go to the same universities?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-04-2014, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,144,102 times
Reputation: 219
If i recall correctly the dynasty are mostly those of spanish and chinese ancestry?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-04-2014, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Filipinas
1,761 posts, read 6,963,772 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
If i recall correctly the dynasty are mostly those of spanish and chinese ancestry?
It is mixed group of people not just those Spanish and Chinese Ancestries

Here are some of the List of the Political (Family) Dynasties


1 Abad Family (Batanes)
2 Abalos Family (Mandaluyong City)
3 Abaya Family (Cavite)
4 Acosta Family (Bukidnon)
5 Aguilar(-Villar) Family (Las Piñas City and Muntinlupa City)
6 Albano Family (Isabela)
7 Alcala Family (Quezon)
8 Alfaro Family (Camarines Sur and Bulacan)
9 Almario Family (Davao Oriental)
10 Alonto Family (Lanao del Sur and Lanao del Norte)
11 Ampatuan Family (Maguindanao)
12 Andal-Contreras Family (Oriental Mindoro)
13 Angara Family (Aurora)
14 Antonino Family (Nueva Ecija, La Union and General Santos City)
15 Aquino Family (Sorsogon, Agusan del Sur and CARAGA)
16 Arroyo Family (Camarines Sur, Negros Occidental and Pampanga)
17 Asistio Family (Caloocan City)
18 Atienza Family (Manila)
19 Bagatsing Family (Manila and Muntinlupa City)
20 Barzaga Family (Cavite)
21 Belmonte Family (Quezon City)
22 Bernabe Family (Parañaque City)
23 Binay Family (Makati City)
24 Calalay Family (Quezon City)
25 Calixto Family (Pasay City)
26 Castelo Family (Quezon City)
27 Cayetano Family (Muntinlupa City, Pateros and Taguig City)
28 Cerilles Family (Zamboanga del Sur)
29 Climaco Family (Zamboanga City)
30 Cortes Family (Mandaue)
31 Cojuangco(-Aquino) Family (Tarlac)
32 Crisologo Family (Ilocos Sur)
33 Cua Family (Quirino)
34 Cuenco Family (Cebu)
35 Datumulok Family (Lanao del Sur)
36 Defensor Family (Iloilo and Quezon City)
37 De Venecia (Pangasinan)
38 Del Mar Family (Cebu)
39 Dimaporo Family (Lanao del Norte and Lanao del Sur)
40 Dominguez Family (Cavite)
41 Dumlao Family (Nueva Vizcaya)
42 Duterte Family (Davao City)
43 Dy Family (Isabela)
44 Echiverri Family (Caloocan City)
45 Ecleo Family (Dinagat Islands)
46 Ejército Family (Estrada/Estregan Family) (Laguna, Manila, Quezon, and San Juan City)
47 Escudero Family (Sorsogon)
48 Espinosa/Martinez Family (Cebu, Masbate, and Iloilo City)
49 Eusebio Family (Pasig)
50 Fajardo Family (Nueva Ecija)
51 Fua Family (Siquijor)
52 Fuentebella Family (Camarines Sur, Negros)
53 Gaje/Locsin Family (Negros Occidental and Iloilo)
54 Galicia Family (Davao Region)
55 Garcia Family (Bataan)
56 Garcia Family (Cebu)
57 Garcia Family (Davao City)
58 Garin Family (Iloilo)
59 Gatchalian Family (Valenzuela City)
60 Gomez Family (Laguna)
61 Gordon Family (Zambales)
62 Guingona Family (Agusan, Bukidnon, Negros Oriental and Misamis Oriental)
63 Imperial Family (Albay)
64 Jaen Family (Leganes, Iloilo)
65 Jagunap Family (Leganes, Iloilo)
66 Jalandoni Jover Family (Iloilo City)
67 Jalosjos Family (Zamboanga del Norte, Zamboanga Sibugay)
68 Javier Family (Navotas)
69 Noriel-Joson Family (Nueva Ecija)
70 Lacson Family (Antique, Cavite, Negros Occidental and Manila)
71 Lapid Family (Pampanga)
72 Lapus Family (Tarlac)
73 Laurel Family (Batangas)
74 Lecaroz Family (Marinduque and Batangas)
75 Lim Family (Southern Leyte)
76 Lobregat Family (Zamboanga City)
77 Lim Family (Palawan)
78 Maliksi Family (Cavite)
79 Manrique Family (Boac, Marinduque)
80 Mangudadatu Family (Sultan Kudarat, Maguindanao)
81 Macapagal Family (Camarines Sur, Pampanga and Zambales)
82 Madrigal Family
83 Magsaysay Family (Zambales)
84 Masigan Family (Isabela)
85 Mastura Family (Maguindanao)
86 Mendiola/Siojo/Mercado Family (Bulacan, Pampanga, Mindoro, Samar)
87 Mitra Family (Palawan)
88 Nepomuceno Family (Pampanga)
89 Olivarez Family (Parañaque City)
90 Ortega Family (La Union, Negros Oriental)
91 Osmeña Family (Cebu)
92 Pacquiao Family (Sarangani)
93 Pimentel Family (Cagayan de Oro)
94 Plaza Family (Agusan del Sur, Agusan del Norte, Cagayan)
95 Ponce Enrile Family (Cagayan)
96 Rama Family (Cebu)
97 Ramos Family (Pangasinan)
98 Recto Family (Batangas)
99 Remulla Family (Cavite)
100 Revilla Family (Cavite)
101 Reyes Family (Marinduque)
102 Reyes Family (Palawan)
103 Robredo Family (Camarines Sur)
104 Roco Family (Camarines Sur)
105 Roman Family (Bataan)
106 Romualdez/Lopez Family (Leyte)
107 Romulo Family (Quezon City, Pasig and Valenzuela)
108 Roxas Family (Capiz)
109 Santillan Family (Batangas, Cavite, Manila, Antique, Albay, Pampanga)
110 Sarmiento Family (Buenavista, Marinduque)
111 Singson/ Gacula (Ilocos Sur)
112 Sinsuat Family (Maguindanao)
113 Sotto Family (Cebu, Quezon City and Paranaque)
114 Suarez Family (Quezon)
115 Tan Family (Samar)
116 Teves Family (Negros Oriental and Muntinlupa)
117 Tiangco Family (Navotas)
118 Tañada Family (Quezon)
119 Tolentino Family (Cavite)
120 Ty Family (Surigao del Sur)
121 Umali Family (Nueva Ecija)
122 Uy Family (Isabela)
123 Uy Family (Zamboanga del Norte)
124 Violago Family (Nueva Ecija)
125 Villafuerte Family (Camarines Sur)
126 Villarreal Family (Capiz)
127 Ynares Family (Rizal)
128 Zubiri Family (Bukidnon)

List of political families in the Philippines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-04-2014, 01:05 PM
 
621 posts, read 381,659 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
Is it really rare for a poor country to have a wealthy area surrounded by slums? I feel like that's very common in the world. Wealth inequality is also very common.



And Makati isn't the only wealthy area and it's not surrounded by slums. Fort Bonifacio is to the East and it's much nicer. to the North is the Ortigas business district, with its own set of neighborhoods like in Makati. Amy Chua's family (Tiger Mom) is from that area. Ortigas transitions into Eastwood City, which is like a nice self-contained city. And in the southern part of the metro is Alabang, which is like the neighborhoods of Makati, but without skyscrapers everywhere. It's more suburban. But it's not like the rest of the metro is all slums. There are middle class and upper-middle class areas all over

The thing that makes Manila's slums look so bad is the population density. But if you go into most of the houses, most of them have electricity, a TV, cellphones, and they can access the internet by going to their neighborhood computer shop. If they finally implement the RH Law, I think things will start to improve for the poor.
Exactly, ive been explaining that to him/her on this thread he created:

Would you agree that Philippines appears the most impoverished and slum-ridden in Asia? (2013, judgment)

But it seems he still wants to insist that grand-slum theory...

I am now starting to suspect the identity of the OP. I hope Im just hallucinating
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top