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Fr. Meslier wants to know why theists cannot be consistent as they contradict themselves in bellowing that why, Heaven is such a paradise with free will and a guarantee not to do wrong whilst the Earth has to include wrong-doing for free will and soul-making.
We have determined volition,not free will and should He know the outcomes of our decisions beforehand, no need then exists for the testing, and if not, the testing lacks any rationale anyway.
This request is no hobgoblin of little minds, but instead the query of all queries about Him should He exist.
John Hick's free-will-soul-making theory boomerangs on him, He makes the straw man, using the slippery slope and all or nothing fallacies, in prattling that we rationalists demand Heaven, but no, we just take that idea of paradise he himself makes to hoist him on his own petard. Now as Burton Porter maintains, why, instead of good and evil, the contrasts could be amongst good, better and best when we choose. As some people do supererogatory measures, why not all?
It does no good to refer to the myth of Eden or anyother one- they are just myths and have no metaphorical outcomes.
This is not a query involbing any scriptures, but a philosophical-theological one. Apologists for the square circle should try to overcome this weighty objection without using the standard responses to the problem of evil whether in the logical or Rowe's evidentail form. However, should ne do so here. then the standard overwhelming rebuttals will ensue.
1. There is both sin and free will in Heaven.
2. There is sin but no free will in Heaven.
3. There is free will but no sin in Heaven.
4. There is neither free will nor sin in Heaven.
Cosmicstargoat, that's insurmountable in itself,friend. We trap then anyway they put forth.
Should any play up Lucifer's falll as portraying life in Heaven with free will and the possibility of doing wrong and He ejects the fallen, then the difference is just the better quality of surroundings, and thus not quite bliss. Why would Yahweh let Lucifer act at will anyway? We have enough problems doing right without him.
Anyway, as noted no scriptures can work to dissolve this problem.
Which is the one on which we can hoist y'all on your own petard, theists?
We naturalists would expect evil but we cannot assuage ourselves with that placebo.
And that misanthropic idea of Hell aggravates the problem.
We naturalists would expect evil due to natural conditions.Again,Aquinas' superfluity argument emerges: why introduce God as that second and superfluous hypothesis to explain what is already explained? Theists cannot explain evil but always rationalize why He fails to overcome it!
I think the problem of evil has had one simple (and only partial) explanation over and over from our theist neighbors: evil has been necessary.
Various reasons are given to elaborate, but it remains a big problem for keeping myths and theologies congruent.
I think the problem of evil has had one simple (and only partial) explanation over and over from our theist neighbors: evil has been necessary.
Various reasons are given to elaborate, but it remains a big problem for keeping myths and theologies congruent.
Actually, evil is not necessary . . . but it would appear to be unavoidable . . . hence the requirement to "overcome and endure to the end." Just saying.
I've long been curious about the specific nuts and bolts of paradise. For example, say a devoted servant of god lives a self sacrificing life, devoting herself 100 % to the welfare of her husband and children whom she loves more than her own life. She gives daily heartfelt thanks to The Lord for all with which she has been blessed and when she passes away, she is taken to her reward.
But....with her loving influence removed, her widower and children have a falling out, they go their separate ways and each one heads down a dark path of selfish sin, capricious lust, wicked and dishonest dealings with others, and they turn their backs on god.
They go belly up and are informed by St. Peter that they have been sentenced to the max, an eternity squatting on them coals, shrieking in agony.
So...how is this handled in terms of our late woman in heaven? Has she not been looking forward to a post corporal reunion with her loved ones? Is the fact that they went to hell kept from her? To sustain her perpetual euphoria, is she made to forget that she ever had loved ones?
Or if she has awareness that her family members didn't make the Big Cut, is she just so giggly goo all slap happy that she doesn't care?
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