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At what moment if you life were you convinced that a god could not exist?
There wasn't a single epiphany; it was more like a series of lessons over the course of some years in which I realized that everything I'd ever been taught about god, or to believe in regards to him/it, wasn't relevant or accurate.
I'd say that around the same time that my parents confirmed to me that Santa, the Easter Bunny, etc. weren't real was around the same time that I started to scrutinize the existence of god. I'd been suspect about these entities and all their fantastical exploits, but told myself that at the very least, I was supposed to believe in them and thus, I did. Maybe a month or two later, I asked my parents if god was real, too, and got a pretty firm response - it baffled me, because it seemed as though god was just a more complex fantasy character; a Santa Clause that had grand buildings erected to him.
I half expected that at some point, my parents would let it drop that god was just a fantasy, a ruse to keep kids happy, content, and hopeful until they were old enough to understand big, crazy adult things, and I ignored the existence of monks, nuns, priests - my grandfather was a minister, for that matter. In time, I came to realize that, no: people actually believed this stuff. They believed in it so sincerely, they fought wars, judged people, disowned family members over it.
I can name specific times which certainly were pivotal points in my disbelief, but no... there wasn't an "epiphany" moment. During the second push I described, when I sort of reaffirmed my nonbelief, I do recall one very nice, wonderful, warm night when I was living in Venice Beach, where I'd had a productive and wonderful day, when I looked up at the sky out my window and laid there on my bed, happy to be alive and in this world, with an undetermined fate and no cosmic puppeteer pulling my or anyone else's strings. The realization hit me and I felt more alive, at peace, and whole than I had in some time.
For me, it was during the 2nd semester of my first year in seminary two decades ago. It was definitely not a convenient time for me to "lose my faith".
At what moment if you life were you convinced that a god could not exist?
I clearly remember this. My "aha moment" came when I was about 7 or so when figured out that there was no Santa Claus. It rocked my world because I SO wanted to believe in a jolly, magical man who gives me presents. I confronted my dad with a calculator and showed that there was no possible way for a fat man in a red suit to come down the chimneys of hundreds of millions on children on a single night... let alone take the time to eat the cookies we laid out for him. My dad helped me with the calculations and secretly, I think he was proud of me for having such an inquisitive mind.
Although my parents tried to keep up the illusion to protect my "innocence," I could tell from their expressions that the ruse was up. I found out the truth and there was no turning back. I remember being extremely upset at them too... not because there was no Santa Claus, but because they lied to me for years. I trusted them completely until that point. I felt extremely betrayed and made a vow to never do that to another person because I know how much it hurts. Seeking the truth, no matter how upsetting, became an obsession for me ever since.
Once I figured out there was no Santa Claus, it was a matter of hours before I started questioning everything... including god. It was an easy transistion from questioning the existence of Santa to questioning the existence of god because both have very similar, patriarchal, judgemental qualities (naughty and nice and all that). It still amazes me that mature people... even in their 80's still have not made the same conclusions I did when I was a little kid. The power of delusion and denial is amazing.
I clearly remember this. My "aha moment" came when I was about 7 or so when figured out that there was no Santa Claus. It rocked my world because I SO wanted to believe in a jolly, magical man who gives me presents. I confronted my dad with a calculator and showed that there was no possible way for a fat man in a red suit to come down the chimneys of hundreds of millions on children on a single night... let alone take the time to eat the cookies we laid out for him. My dad helped me with the calculations and secretly, I think he was proud of me for having such an inquisitive mind.
Although my parents tried to keep up the illusion to protect my "innocence," I could tell from their expressions that the ruse was up. I found out the truth and there was no turning back. I remember being extremely upset at them too... not because there was no Santa Claus, but because they lied to me for years. I trusted them completely until that point. I felt extremely betrayed and made a vow to never do that to another person because I know how much it hurts. Seeking the truth, no matter how upsetting, became an obsession for me ever since.
Once I figured out there was no Santa Claus, it was a matter of hours before I started questioning everything... including god. It was an easy transistion from questioning the existence of Santa to questioning the existence of god because both have very similar, patriarchal, judgemental qualities (naughty and nice and all that). It still amazes me that mature people... even in their 80's still have not made the same conclusions I did when I was a little kid. The power of delusion and denial is amazing.
Isn't it amazing how a fairly innocent and well-intentioned, faith-based ruse in one's formative years can end up having the inverse of its intended effect?
As long as I can remember. Parents never mentioned god stuff- they weren't atheists, they were depressed and spaced out. I was surrounded by the Holocaust in my community and it never occurred to me that there was any logic or god or any such in human life. I also was pretty old before I realized that some people actually believe this stuff.
I think I've been an Atheist my entire life and I'm in my early 40s now. I never really took religion that seriously and I was raised in a very strict, conservative Catholic family. I still have my first communion photo that illustrates my refusal to take religion seriously. I was standing next to my best friend who happened to be the only African American student in my Catholic elementary school run by nuns. She and I crossed our eyes and stuck out our tongues at the moment the photographer yelled, "Say cheese!" Well, the photograph of our communion class was never re-shot. It makes me laugh whenever I think about that moment. My parents were furious, but that didn't stop me from continuing to rebel against religion. At my confirmation, I tried to choose the name "Madonna Ciccone" (ha ha ha) but couldn't get away with it. I never really bought into the whole worship the guy in the sky story. Even at my father's funeral when everyone was talking about him being in heaven, all I kept thinking, was, "These people are delusional. The only thing in the sky is the stratosphere and atmosphere and space beyond that." I was 21 at the time. I remember ten years ago when I went to church "just to see" what it felt like and had a total panic attack and had to leave before the homily. I just couldn't sit through mass pretending to believe. I think that was the moment when I finally accepted my atheism as "okay." I decided I couldn't go to hell for not believing in hell anymore. Does that make sense? I think religion is created to control the masses, and Catholicism and the Bible are like every other religion. There is no "correct" religious belief system although every religion touts itself as the correct religion to follow.
I never thought any of that was real, although I did hang out in church youth groups as a teen I had no religious upbringing. I can remember being at bible camp and after a sermon there was an call to alter or whatever and they kept playing "Just As I Am" over and over...and over. Practically everyone was up in front of the room by the time they were done and me and just a handful of others remained in our chairs. I swear, the goal must have been for 100% compliance because it lasted FOREVER! I was never one to bow to peer pressure though.
Never believed. It was more a process of coming to believe that others actually believed.
Wow, there's a regular run of "never even occurred to me to believe" folks here. I have to admit, I admire (and envy!) you guys and people I know personally who never were burdened with having to pry theism out of their heads. I hope you have an idea how fortunate you are.
I've come to believe that some personality types are fairly immune to theism, even in childhood. Some are particularly susceptible. It's my theory that in general, the younger a child is, the more disposed they tend to be to uncritically trust their elders. For most people, this tends to "stick" for a very long time for very close relatives, especially parents. I have met plenty of people who even wait until their parents die to sell the family business and finally pursue their passion, or leave the faith and figure out what they really (don't) believe. This is clearly an unhealthy extreme, but I don't often see people differentiating from their parents as to religious beliefs until at least the teen years, and even then they may go through the motions to keep the peace.
I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with it, but most people probably can't imagine risking their parent's wrath by questioning their beliefs at the tender age of, say, 6.
I'm curious -- for those of you who have always run against the grain, even of their parents ... was there any side effects of this state of affairs that you regret, in retrospect? Or is it all upside for you? And to what do you attribute this level of independence?
I'm curious -- for those of you who have always run against the grain, even of their parents ... was there any side effects of this state of affairs that you regret, in retrospect? Or is it all upside for you? And to what do you attribute this level of independence?
The upside to rejecting my Catholic faith finally as an adult is that I'm free of all the hypocritical b.s. that religion touts as "god's law." Religion is not THE only source for good values and good morals. That's a personal choice as much as it's based on the environment you grow up in and the people you interact with.
I've seen how people abuse Religion and use Religion as an excuse to justify their crazy and inappropriate behavior. People do things "in the name of god," which is ludicrous. And the Pope. Let's not forget the Pope who rejects birth control, homosexuality, and has no problem supporting cover ups of priests who molest children.
Ever since I decided to become 100% Atheist, I have felt less depressed and more grounded with my "spirituality." One does not need Religion to be a spiritual person.
My independence from religion resulted in a need to follow my own inner voice; not be a slave in a herd of blind, dumb animals who are trained to follow an invisible Shepherd they only read about but never meet. I trust myself over some priest who is ordained by god. What does that mean anyway? That the priest is a better person than I am because he read more scripture than me? Prayed more than me? I don't think so.
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