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The irony here is that religions of all stripes essentially make it impossible to ever achieve that.
Because religions have bigotry, racism, misogyny, and pre-defined groups to hate already built into their dogmas.
I have said before -- and I will always say it -- that I find any negativity that stems from religion the saddest of all atrocities.
Because the terrorism, the divisions, the wars, the xenophobia, the hatreds -- all for what?
At least with politics, there is a "there" there to actually fight over.
But with religion, you're fighting over whose fictional, non-existent book character is better.
One may as well fight and die or blow up buildings over whether Huck Finn is better than Tom Sawyer.
I believe the fight is rarely actually over that. I think it's the vehicle by which those in power and seeking to gain more power get support and bodies for the battlefield to achieve their goals.
Ironically, weird as you may think my views are, physics is part of the way I understand and explain my experiences of God, Cruithne.
I don't find them weird actually.
I just think that you understand physics, and you believe there is a god, and it's your way of melding the two and justifying it. It's no different really from someone who looks at a strawberry, or a child, or a mountain or a cloud and sees god in it all. In the same way, you understand physics = god.
I just see the god bit as an unnecessary add-on.
The bit I don't get is why you're always bringing 'Jesus' and 'agape love' into it. That's where for me, it all goes off at a tangent and all gets tied back to religion.
Surely someone who is bright - as you obviously are - would recognise that Christianity is just one of many religions, none any more legitimate than the next. If you had been raised in another part of the world or been born in pre-Christian times, you'd have never even heard of Jesus.
And this agape love stuff - I don't know. I believe that you believe it's a thing, but again for me, it's another unnecessary add-on.
And I looked up the eclipses of course and 4 BC was partial which is why 1 BC got a lot of mention. But somehow I missed a 5 BC total lunar eclipse which would do perfectly.
As to the Missing governorship. I think it has to ve Varus. Not an official 2nd term which not the done Thing, but since the events of Varus putting down the revolt in Judea while Archelaus was in Rome fits the missing governorship, it seems to me that Varus was acting as governor in an unofficial 2nd term. That's before (according to Josephus) Varus wrote to rome advising of the unrest, Augustus rubber stamped the Tetrarchies and bundled Archelaus off to Judea to work with Varus in putting down the various revolts, Simon, Athronges and others.
Happy to discuss this filling in of the missing term, if you have doubts, but I'm pretty sure that is the answer, and there is no case for fitting Quirinus in there and Herod was dead anyway. So it does the '2nd census' argument no good at all.
However, this is way off -topic as this is about God, not Jesus, and that means either the god of the Bible or some other sorta god, which is Miss H seems to be talking about: something not unlike Mystic's Cosmic Stardust - Dust -god who can speak to and guide us though our imperfect human perceptions, but which nevertheless are to be taken as unquestioningly correct in this matter.
The Antiquities of the Jews, 18.106
Flavius Josephus translated by William Whiston
106. About this time it was that Philip, Herod’s brother, departed this life, in the twentieth year of the reign of Tiberius, after he had been tetrarch of Trachonitis and Gaulanitis, and of the nation of the Bataneans also, thirty-seven years. He had showed himself a person of moderation and quietness in the conduct of his life and government;
Some later Latin manuscripts have in the twenty second year, which would mean his 37 year reign started in 2 BC, not 4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
And I looked up the eclipses of course and 4 BC was partial which is why 1 BC got a lot of mention. But somehow I missed a 5 BC total lunar eclipse which would do perfectly.
Which is what they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
As to the Missing governorship. I think it has to ve Varus. Not an official 2nd term which not the done Thing, but since the events of Varus putting down the revolt in Judea while Archelaus was in Rome fits the missing governorship, it seems to me that Varus was acting as governor in an unofficial 2nd term. That's before (according to Josephus) Varus wrote to rome advising of the unrest, Augustus rubber stamped the Tetrarchies and bundled Archelaus off to Judea to work with Varus in putting down the various revolts, Simon, Athronges and others.
Happy to discuss this filling in of the missing term, if you have doubts, but I'm pretty sure that is the answer, and there is no case for fitting Quirinus in there and Herod was dead anyway. So it does the '2nd census' argument no good at all.
Varus would not need an unofficial term. The usual length of service was 3 years, but it could have been extended. Quirinius served for 6 years, for example. So Varus COULD have legally been governor until 1 BC. The problem is we have no evidence for this. And the coins he had minted for his term in Syria date only to 4 BC. Varus putting down the revolt in 4 BC also fits Varus being legate until that time.
And we still have the the candidate recorded the Lapis Tiburtinus. I do not know of any of the Legates we do know that fit. So the only time I can see for this unknown Legate is 4 - 1 BC.
The Antiquities of the Jews, 18.106
Flavius Josephus translated by William Whiston
106. About this time it was that Philip, Herod’s brother, departed this life, in the twentieth year of the reign of Tiberius, after he had been tetrarch of Trachonitis and Gaulanitis, and of the nation of the Bataneans also, thirty-seven years. He had showed himself a person of moderation and quietness in the conduct of his life and government;
Some later Latin manuscripts have in the twenty second year, which would mean his 37 year reign started in 2 BC, not 4.
Which is what they want.
Varus would not need an unofficial term. The usual length of service was 3 years, but it could have been extended. Quirinius served for 6 years, for example. So Varus COULD have legally been governor until 1 BC. The problem is we have no evidence for this. And the coins he had minted for his term in Syria date only to 4 BC. Varus putting down the revolt in 4 BC also fits Varus being legate until that time.
And we still have the the candidate recorded the Lapis Tiburtinus. I do not know of any of the Legates we do know that fit. So the only time I can see for this unknown Legate is 4 - 1 BC.
Point taken but one last post on this before shifting to nativity thread.
7/6 – 4 BC Publius Quinctilius Varus
4 – 1 BC Unknown[1]
1 BC – 4 AD Gaius Julius Caesar Vipsanianus
As you say, 4- 1 is unknown Syrian governorship.
The Tetrarchy of Archelaus was from 4 BC - 6 AD, give or take debate about when Herod died.
Archelaus went to Rome fairly early on to be confirmed in the Rulership of Judea and we don't know who was Syrian governor at the time. But Josephus says that when revolts broke out when Archelaus was in Rome, Varus put the Judean revolt down. That looks to me like he was acting as governor, whether his time had been extended on not, or the matter of a new governor was put on the back burner until the mess was sorted out. It would make sense that any coinage circulating was that issued during Varus' official time as governor, so that he issued no coinage 4- 1 B C is not a serious problem. In any case there is no mention of Quirinus at the time and Herod was gone, so the matter of the governorship 4-1 BC is arguable, but a Quirinus census in the last days of Herod doesn't seem to work, and that is what the debate is about.
I have no respect for anyone that is morally inferior to me.
That is one of the most pompous and unkind things I've ever read on this forum. Religious people are often correctly criticized for similar attitudes toward atheists or people of other faiths. Most of what you list here about "benevolent beings" is not the personal responsibility of every individual, past or present. For instance, the fact that monarchies was an organizational system in the past with a few lingering examples today does not make anyone who lived or is living within a monarchy or supporting one due to their heritage a non-benevolent person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Those are all the actions of sadistic malevolent beings, who are not worthy of respect.
So pretty much all your ancestors who were a product of their time and place and a hapless part of some of what you listed are malevolent and not worthy of your respect. I hope for your sake as a human being you can understand how absurd the attitudes in your post are in painting so many with a broad brush!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
The only real difference between Yahweh and Hitler, is Yahweh probably doesn't have a sporty mustache.
You call that sporty? Your post is full of malevolent attitudes to your fellow human beings. Physician, heal thyself.
I believe the fight is rarely actually over that. I think it's the vehicle by which those in power and seeking to gain more power get support and bodies for the battlefield to achieve their goals.
You betcha. I'm with you on that. Those in power want to keep people fearful and under control.
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