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Old 12-07-2018, 09:14 AM
 
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I'm curious how other a-theists deal with the Holidays, particularly professionally. I mean, socially, so your recommendations would also apply to funerals and similar events. It would be a professional disaster if I were to reveal how little credence I give to the holy stories. I could be ruined financially if people knew how I really felt: I teach, I have a retail business, and do a lot of freelancing (at churches), especially this time of year.

Dawkins and his ilk encourage atheists to come out, but that's easy for them to say, with their tenured positions at liberal universities and their wealth garnered from their books and public appearances.

President Bush's funeral reminded me how naive I can be in not recognizing how literally perhaps a majority of the populace take the holy stories. He apparently believed, by all reports. Amazing, to me, that an accomplished, mature adult, would seriously consider these stories to be literal truth, but they do.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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As a retired principal. dealing with the holidays was always a challenge, both personally and professionally.

As a result of the way my family celebrated Christmas when I was a child, Christmas has always been important to me. While it may be based on a christian celebration, there are many aspects to it that have nothing to with christianity. One part of Christmas is giving. On either Thanksgiving or Christmas I always sit down with my checkbook and make my yearly donations to a number of charities. I exchange gifts with friends who are close to me. Usually I decorate, although none of the decorations have a christian theme to them. I attend christmas parties, and always have. I send holiday cards to catch up with old friends. But none of what I do has a religious theme to it. Holiday cards are "Christmasy" but without angels on high or depictions of a manger. If someone starts singing christmas music I join in, unless it's a carol. I don't feel any need to go around saying humbug.

I think back to two things in my days as a principal. We had a teacher who had a great idea one year, and it earned a lot of praise and virtually no criticism. We allowed non-religious decorations as long as things weren't overdone (and, btw, we allowed decorations related to other recognized holidays throughout the world). This particular teacher suggested having an international tree at Christmas in our school cafeteria. The only decorations allowed were white 4X6 index cards which students from different cultures could paint to represent the flags of their countries, or the countries of their ancestors. The theme was simple -- peace on earth.

The other thing that I am reminded of was a situation with our choral teacher. For three years in a row I asked her to tone down the religious aspect of her annual Christmas concert. I kept pointing out to her that there would be no objections considered for songs like "I'm Dreaming Of A White Christmas" or "Silver Bells", but that Christmas carols would be frowned on. I even put it in writing. To no avail. The fourth year I was principal, the day after the annual Christmas concert, a Muslim mother came into my office literally wailing, sobbing, and screaming wanting to know why in the chorus class (in our school it was a credit elective, not a club) her Muslim daughter had been required to sing songs praising jesus. And this was exactly what I had been concerned with. I went down the choral classroom, had an assistant principal cover the class, and brought the choral teacher up to my office. For fifteen minutes the teacher was now on the hot seat listening to the screaming, wailing, and sobbing. And when the parent left, the choral teacher actually asked, "Why did you make me listen to that?" "Because you are the one who creates the situation each year, and despite my annual meeting with you with recommendations, you just keep doing what you want to do. And I'm the one each year who suffers the consequences. From now on, you will suffer those consequences and I'll let angry parents put you on the carpet". It just took once. Yes, there were a couple of carols in most Christmas concerts after that, but the choral teacher made sure that during the course of the year, music from every culture represented in our school was presented. And as a result, the complaints about the issue dwindled to virtually nothing.

There are ways to celebrate cultures without making people feel left out.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:44 AM
 
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Doesn't bother me at all. I still go along with pretty much all the traditions and try not to kick and scream too much. It's pretty easy to do Christmas without the religious overtones as it's become a fairly secular holiday. We put up a tree, xmas lights and the kids have a blast doing xmas themed activities. We go to parades and tree-lightings and overall have a great time. My favorite Xmas song to hear, ironically, is "Silent Night, Holy night". I saw Merry Christmas. Not really a big deal to me.

For the most part, being in the northeast, the religious overtone tends to be very minimal. You can tell people you are an atheist and many will shrug their shoulders and say "meh" and that's the end of it. Kinda makes it easy. It's not really pushed in schools at all either.

We are throwing a Christmas party this Saturday at our house and I am looking forward to it. Some family and friends we haven't seen in a while will be buy. Quite a few are also non-religious, but it's still fun to participate. Tree will be lit up, decorations are hung, and the kids will be having fun.

Work Xmas themed parties? Count me in. Really not religious at all in this neck of the woods. My company is pretty diverse so plenty of people who aren't catholic attend. More of a social gathering with free food and drink and a chance to talk to your coworkers in a more relaxed atmosphere.

Once in a while you hear the usually religious stuff. We have family that still sends very religious holiday cards and such to us. I just roll with it. No big deal.

Usually the only time I make a big deal out of it is when someone tried to force their views on me or tell me i'm wrong. Then we have problems. That rarely happens though in this area of the country.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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I was talking to my MIL the other day about how I could not find a local radio station to play Christmas music at my shop. She knows I’m atheist, so I said to her “ I bet you are thinking, why would you care about hearing Christmas music?” She said yep. I told her you don’t have to celebrate the religious aspect of Christmas. I enjoy the pagan parts. I also said that I miss hearing the Grinch song.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:06 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
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To me, Christmas is a cultural holiday. I don't believe there is really a Santa or that a snowman named Frosty came to life. If Santa and Frosty being imaginary don't spoil the fund of Christmas, then why should the Nativity Story?
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Christ has been out of Xmas for me for so long that I enjoy whatever parts of it are secular.
Being retired, I don't have to be concerned with any possible negative professional consequences but even when it would have, I can't recall any occasion when the subject was ever brought up.
If so and I just don't remember ( A word I have tried to omit from my vocabulary lately), no doubt tactful evasion was employed.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:15 PM
 
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I am an atheist that had pretty good theist parents.

I love Christmas lights. i look forward to them every year.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
As a retired principal. dealing with the holidays was always a challenge, both personally and professionally.

There are ways to celebrate cultures without making people feel left out.
I agree with you, but you may want to look at this statement by music educators about using sacred music in public school programs

https://nafme.org/about/position-sta...ic-in-schools/

Quote:
In order to ensure that any music class or program is conforming to the constitutional standards of religious neutrality necessary in public schools, the following questions raised in 1971 by Chief Justice Warren E. Burger in Lemon v. Kurtzman1 should be asked of each school-sanctioned observance, program, or institutional activity involving religious content, ceremony, or celebration:

1. What is the purpose of the activity? Is the purpose secular in nature, that is, studying music of a particular composer’s style or historical period?

2. What is the primary effect of the activity? Is it the celebration of religion? Does the activity either enhance or inhibit religion? Does it invite confusion of thought or family objections?

3. Does the activity involve excessive entanglement with a religion or religious group, or between the schools and religious organizations? Financial support can, in certain cases, be considered an entanglement.

If the music educator’s use of sacred music can withstand the test of these questions, it is probably not in violation of the First Amendment.

Since music with a sacred text or of a religious origin (particularly choral music) constitutes such a substantial portion of music literature and has such an important place in the history of music, it should and does have an important place in music education.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,822 posts, read 24,335,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
I agree with you, but you may want to look at this statement by music educators about using sacred music in public school programs

https://nafme.org/about/position-sta...ic-in-schools/
First, I am well aware of that "position statement". I am also aware of what our Superintendent stated each year at the time. And he was my boss, not other music educators.

Second, everything isn't just about what's legal or illegal. I wanted every child in my school to feel welcomed and valued. There's no law about that. It's just the right thing to do. And I'm willing to bet that the group of educators who wrote that position paper were overwhelming majority citizens.

This isn't about Christmas, but I think it makes my point. Just a few days after 9/11, a Muslim diplomatic family registered their boy in our school. I've forgotten now which Middle Eastern nation they were from, but they were literally petrified. The boy was on the verge of tears throughout the registration process and I decided to personally take them on a tour of the school. When we walked into the main gym, the little boy looked up at the ceiling where there a flag for every student's nation of origin that we had in our student body. He said, "Look daddy. There's our flag". No more tears, far less fear. No law told us to hang those flags. No law is required for good people to do what is right.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:59 PM
 
4,927 posts, read 2,908,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
First, I am well aware of that "position statement". I am also aware of what our Superintendent stated each year at the time. And he was my boss, not other music educators.

Second, everything isn't just about what's legal or illegal. I wanted every child in my school to feel welcomed and valued. There's no law about that. It's just the right thing to do. And I'm willing to bet that the group of educators who wrote that position paper were overwhelming majority citizens.

This isn't about Christmas, but I think it makes my point. Just a few days after 9/11, a Muslim diplomatic family registered their boy in our school. I've forgotten now which Middle Eastern nation they were from, but they were literally petrified. The boy was on the verge of tears throughout the registration process and I decided to personally take them on a tour of the school. When we walked into the main gym, the little boy looked up at the ceiling where there a flag for every student's nation of origin that we had in our student body. He said, "Look daddy. There's our flag". No more tears, far less fear. No law told us to hang those flags. No law is required for good people to do what is right.

Your post reminds me of Russell's assertion that freethinkers tend to be substantially more ethical than the surrounding, religious, population. Atheists, in other words, may be characterized as more moral, and just better people, than their critics. It's just that their ethics are based on "kindness and intelligence" and not the pronouncements of some imaginary religious being, particularly one as vicious as found in the prevailing holy books.

I've always found this to be true, and your post illustrates exactly that.
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