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It's an interesting list though I consider myself to fall across several of those categories, while not fitting directly into any.
Primarily I'd say I fit into the intellectual academic category although that's an exceedingly smug title and I don't consider myself 'academic'. I have two degrees but not in anything to do with theology.
I'm here primarily to learn about how other people minds tick.
Next I'd say category 6 applies. I LOVE churches and religious art and one of the things I always try to do when visiting a European city is look around the cathedral or church. They're always such beautiful buildings and I'm very into architecture.
Also my entire family is atheist but we still go all in on Christmas.
I could probably find positive and negative things to say about all the other 4 categories.
I believe atheists are spiritual people. I created a thread about it recently over on the main forum.
I think there are positive and negative aspects of religion.
I'm not an activist for atheism but I'm pro-choice, pro animal welfare and pro gay rights. Not that I see any of those things having anything to do with religion or atheism.
In conclusion, it's pretty hard to pigeon-hole an atheist.
Good Points
I too can identify with many of those categories as well.
Sounds like us. We always go out of our way to photograph religious architecture, always go to Mass on Christmas and often find beauty in religious themed art. But we are atheist. And we love architecture. And Beauty
I also do not have a degree in theology, in spite of a religious upbringing. I did pick up a second Minor in Anthropology during my undergraduate studies, much to the dismay of my parents "Oh you can't take classes in Archeology or anthropology because they teach evolution and that is SOOooo SINFUL!"
In regards to our enjoyment of Christmas, the mythology, music lights and sounds, I have never had an atheist say "Oh You can't be involved in that" Or an Atheist say "Well you are not a real atheist" BUT long ago, when I was a believer, before I became a Great Apostate, I had numerous Christians say "You can't do that" Or "Well if you do then you are not a 'real' Christian "
Which was met with "Well, if being a 'Real' Christian is what YOU are, then I want NO PART of it."
I would say though, it was not as much the philosophy of Christianity which drove me away from it, initially, it was the People who practiced it. Later though, I took a more scholarly look at it, analyzing and deciding IF it was something in which I should subscribe, and the answer was a resounding NO !
I do not see Christianity as a healthy outlook for many reason. One, it removes from the person all sense of accountability, placing one's fate in the hands of a Deity, who as far as I can tell, does not exist. Two, along those lines, it allows for blame for all problems personal and social to be attributed to someone else, either Adam, Eve, or the DEVIL (which again, has no evidence of existing at all) and this leads to a personal and social apathy, as I have been told "Oh well, Jesus will come fix it some day"
Christianity does not Empower an individual; it Excuses an individual, without allowing or encouraging a positive psychological or sociological change. it does not encourage a person to be self advocating, rather it encourages a person to give up and let a Deity control everything, sickness, poverty, famine....without question or intervention.
I could go on but I will save some for later
As for your post Cruithne, there is a temple here, currently closed, which attracts thousands on each Sunday (before Covid, that was) And in addition to the food, there is a Buddhist temple, where the Monks teach devotion to society by right living, by fostering an interest in community deeds, for the betterment of one's personal spiritual evolution and the betterment of society.
I guess that falls under the lines of charity or activism. We DO NOT worship Buddha. Let me make that clear. Buddhism is a philosophy which has influences into many schools of therapy and psychology, especially in that it teaches a person to look at the source of their unhappiness and look at different ways of viewing a situation. The Influences and outcomes of Buddhist philosophy in therapy are starting to show as a basic treatment modality for self-identification and positive outcome modeling of a variety of diagnoses. So in that field, yes I do support Buddhist teachings, in so far as that they empower a person for healthy and positive change.
SO that too puts me as an activist against the failings of Christianity too, since I see more harm done by certain aspects (not all) of certain schools of Christianity.
In regards to our enjoyment of Christmas, the mythology, music lights and sounds, I have never had an atheist say "Oh You can't be involved in that" Or an Atheist say "Well you are not a real atheist" BUT long ago, when I was a believer, before I became a Great Apostate, I had numerous Christians say "You can't do that" Or "Well if you do then you are not a 'real' Christian "
Which was met with "Well, if being a 'Real' Christian is what YOU are, then I want NO PART of it."
I would say though, it was not as much the philosophy of Christianity which drove me away from it, initially, it was the People who practiced it. Later though, I took a more scholarly look at it, analyzing and deciding IF it was something in which I should subscribe, and the answer was a resounding NO !
I do not see Christianity as a healthy outlook for many reason. One, it removes from the person all sense of accountability, placing one's fate in the hands of a Deity, who as far as I can tell, does not exist. Two, along those lines, it allows for blame for all problems personal and social to be attributed to someone else, either Adam, Eve, or the DEVIL (which again, has no evidence of existing at all) and this leads to a personal and social apathy, as I have been told "Oh well, Jesus will come fix it some day"
nipped for space ...
.
Hey, thats almost the same as some atheist. They push blame onto religion and a deity and removes all personal responsibility.
It is amazing how the more we say we are different the more we are the same. But, anybody that takes a basic look sees it people.
I too can identify with many of those categories as well.
Sounds like us. We always go out of our way to photograph religious architecture, always go to Mass on Christmas and often find beauty in religious themed art. But we are atheist. And we love architecture. And Beauty
I also do not have a degree in theology, in spite of a religious upbringing. I did pick up a second Minor in Anthropology during my undergraduate studies, much to the dismay of my parents "Oh you can't take classes in Archeology or anthropology because they teach evolution and that is SOOooo SINFUL!"
In regards to our enjoyment of Christmas, the mythology, music lights and sounds, I have never had an atheist say "Oh You can't be involved in that" Or an Atheist say "Well you are not a real atheist" BUT long ago, when I was a believer, before I became a Great Apostate, I had numerous Christians say "You can't do that" Or "Well if you do then you are not a 'real' Christian "
Which was met with "Well, if being a 'Real' Christian is what YOU are, then I want NO PART of it."
I would say though, it was not as much the philosophy of Christianity which drove me away from it, initially, it was the People who practiced it. Later though, I took a more scholarly look at it, analyzing and deciding IF it was something in which I should subscribe, and the answer was a resounding NO !
I do not see Christianity as a healthy outlook for many reason. One, it removes from the person all sense of accountability, placing one's fate in the hands of a Deity, who as far as I can tell, does not exist. Two, along those lines, it allows for blame for all problems personal and social to be attributed to someone else, either Adam, Eve, or the DEVIL (which again, has no evidence of existing at all) and this leads to a personal and social apathy, as I have been told "Oh well, Jesus will come fix it some day"
Christianity does not Empower an individual; it Excuses an individual, without allowing or encouraging a positive psychological or sociological change. it does not encourage a person to be self advocating, rather it encourages a person to give up and let a Deity control everything, sickness, poverty, famine....without question or intervention.
I could go on but I will save some for later
As for your post Cruithne, there is a temple here, currently closed, which attracts thousands on each Sunday (before Covid, that was) And in addition to the food, there is a Buddhist temple, where the Monks teach devotion to society by right living, by fostering an interest in community deeds, for the betterment of one's personal spiritual evolution and the betterment of society.
I guess that falls under the lines of charity or activism. We DO NOT worship Buddha. Let me make that clear. Buddhism is a philosophy which has influences into many schools of therapy and psychology, especially in that it teaches a person to look at the source of their unhappiness and look at different ways of viewing a situation. The Influences and outcomes of Buddhist philosophy in therapy are starting to show as a basic treatment modality for self-identification and positive outcome modeling of a variety of diagnoses. So in that field, yes I do support Buddhist teachings, in so far as that they empower a person for healthy and positive change.
SO that too puts me as an activist against the failings of Christianity too, since I see more harm done by certain aspects (not all) of certain schools of Christianity.
The phrase 'don't throw the baby out with the bathwater' comes to mind. In other words being atheist doesn't mean you have to reject every aspect of religion including the culture and architecture.
You can still appreciate those for what they are.
It's an interesting list though I consider myself to fall across several of those categories, while not fitting directly into any.
Primarily I'd say I fit into the intellectual academic category although that's an exceedingly smug title and I don't consider myself 'academic'. I have two degrees but not in anything to do with theology.
I'm here primarily to learn about how other people minds tick.
Next I'd say category 6 applies. I LOVE churches and religious art and one of the things I always try to do when visiting a European city is look around the cathedral or church. They're always such beautiful buildings and I'm very into architecture.
Also my entire family is atheist but we still go all in on Christmas.
I could probably find positive and negative things to say about all the other 4 categories.
I believe atheists are spiritual people. I created a thread about it recently over on the main forum.
I think there are positive and negative aspects of religion.
I'm not an activist for atheism but I'm pro-choice, pro animal welfare and pro gay rights. Not that I see any of those things having anything to do with religion or atheism.
In conclusion, it's pretty hard to pigeon-hole an atheist.
Thank you for your thoughts on how you relate to the various expressions of atheism. Yes, individual people can fall into more than one category.
I’m also interested to hear opinions on which of those 6 categories of atheism is most prevalent on the A&A and which category is most prevalent on the R&S forum? What is your opinion?
The phrase 'don't throw the baby out with the bathwater' comes to mind. In other words being atheist doesn't mean you have to reject every aspect of religion including the culture and architecture.
You can still appreciate those for what they are.
That, and many atheist have beliefs other things that speak to the notion that we are just a "step", or a "brick" in a reality stack that forms a structure that we are just part of.
Thank you for your thoughts on how you relate to the various expressions of atheism. Yes, individual people can fall into more than one category.
I’m also interested to hear opinions on which of those 6 categories of atheism is most prevalent on the A&A and which category is most prevalent on the R&S forum? What is your opinion?
One would suppose those who feel that they have something to say rather than those who aren't bothered. Wouldn't the same apply to the religious who post here?
Thank you for your thoughts on how you relate to the various expressions of atheism. Yes, individual people can fall into more than one category.
I’m also interested to hear opinions on which of those 6 categories of atheism is most prevalent on the A&A and which category is most prevalent on the R&S forum? What is your opinion?
I'd say it's a range.
Back in the early days when I joined there were conspicuously more activist atheist or anti-theists. People who for one reason or another had had a really bad experience primarily with Christianity or JW's and had actively been driven into atheism. Most of those people seem to have disappeared from the forum, or one time posters pop up occasionally. These days things are a lot more mellow.
I don't spend enough time over on the main forum to form an opinion about who visits there.
In regards to our enjoyment of Christmas, the mythology, music lights and sounds, I have never had an atheist say "Oh You can't be involved in that" Or an Atheist say "Well you are not a real atheist" BUT long ago, when I was a believer, before I became a Great Apostate, I had numerous Christians say "You can't do that" Or "Well if you do then you are not a 'real' Christian ".....
Excellent post responding to an excellent one cut only to select that point. It reminded me of the 'Reverse Grinch' (TM) that I argued some years ago when the 'War on Christmas' was a Thing and the Grinch was (perhaps inevitably) equated with atheists, though what the Grinch was trying to eliminate was fun and enjoyment, not religion.
My argument was that atheists may enjoy Christmas, and certainly nominal or census -Christians who don't actually do the religion and may even doubt it, as well as believers. If anyone was trying to suppress the Joy fun and drunken debauch of Christmas, it was those who felt that Santa and presents and fairylights was missing the Real Point and all that stuff was a worldly distraction if not a satan- inspired blasphemous perversion of a sacred date.
I may now confess that ...what? Oh yes, I flee the country to escape Christmas...but that wasn't the confession. It was that I strongly suspected that happened with some preterunnaturally strict Christian sects, but I didn't know for sure. It's rather interesting to see the idea confirmed.
To me the atheist argument requires rejecting platonism in all its forms, even the fifth one
We have observed that the macro proceeds from the micro in our universe. Plasma became particles, which became hydrogen and helium, which became heavier elements, which agglomerated into heavenly bodies and life. We know that physical laws are properties of matter and energy in various states and quantities.
Physical laws are not laws that could exist without the physical substrate. In fact our physical laws are just mental models we have contrived that are highly accurate in certain contexts. There is no higher order or quintessence to figure out. If you want to know the truth, look below not above.
The micro does not proceed from the macro, which is the gist of the theistic argument. The macro extrapolated out to the level of deity is just conjecture. There is no evidence for it, whereas we have a lot of evidence that the macro did indeed proceed from the micro.
Actually, there is evidence that can be extrapolated to support the idea that the macro could indeed be "reproducing" deity. By recognizing consciousness as something existing in the micro (permanent quantum state) that is being produced by the macro body and brain of living organisms. Of course, this context presumes that God whose existence establishes our micro and macro Reality is Einstein's unified spacetime field (consciousness field) where our consciousness actually resides.
I'd say it's a range.
Back in the early days when I joined there were conspicuously more activist atheist or anti-theists. People who for one reason or another had had a really bad experience primarily with Christianity or JW's and had actively been driven into atheism. Most of those people seem to have disappeared from the forum, or one time posters pop up occasionally. These days things are a lot more mellow.
I don't spend enough time over on the main forum to form an opinion about who visits there.
Maybe it used to be even more pronounced, but the activists and anti-theists still set the combative tone on R&S. If you list the atheists who post most frequently, most are anti-theists whose presence makes R&S a very unfriendly place to discuss religion and spirituality.
If it seems mellow now, compared to when you first joined, I’m glad I wasn’t a member back then. That must have been during the time when New Atheism was more popular.
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