Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Because that's where it really starts at. You guys love to sound intelligent and act like you have all the answers and that us believers are just a bunch of bumpkins....but bottom line is you have no clue.
Logically, the only reasonable intellectual position to take is that since the universe exists, it had to have a cause.
Your statement makes no sense. We've just told you that we don't have all the answers and have been completely honest and open about what is known and what is not known so we're obviously not claiming to know everything. Also, I don't think that all believers are bumpkins even though you make great efforts to present yourself as one. I do agree that the universe had to have a cause and many of us have admitted that we don't know what that cause is but that an intelligent being creating the universe seems extremely far fetched to alot of us.
Easy to make baseless comments - where is your reasonable proof for such assertions?
Baseless? What... you want proof of iconism & idols? (little plastic Jesus figures, crosses around folks' necks, gold-embossed bibles, etc. All icons. Don't even mention posters, DVDs or free magic water packets [with a small donation]!)
Now to be fair, I Googled™ "Plastic Atheist icons" and what came up?
"We did not find results for "plastic Atheist icons". Try the suggestions below or type a new query above."
Rules? Ever go into a Church? Ask any priest what you have to do and in what order. Why threaten ex-communication if there are NO rules? All I hear about Islam is how they punish their women if they don't do things just right, and obey their male masters. And on and on. No rules? Give me a break.
We're all entitled to our opinions. That's your's - so what.
Exactly why this is called an open forum, that's what. For the free exchange of ideas. You posted yours, I posted mine, but apparently you'd like to silence mine. or don't want any comments on your, just adolation and agreement. This is typical of religion: "Burn him at the stake!"
U.S. and world history (true history as opposed to the revisionist type) strongly militates against this assertion. More half truths and dogmatic ranting brought to you by the religion of atheism.
Another typical Christian myth: "The religion of atheism!" Well, if open-minded free thinking, absent any particular rule set or plastic dolls (The Atheist Dogmo-doll; I know: yah see 'em everywhere!) is a religion, sign me up.
Otherwise atheists have nothing particular in common, no common meeting place, no established chants, no beads to count or communion or holy water or lent or Passover or... oh heck, you get the picture.
We just don't happen to buy into what we clearly see as a bie lie. It does sort of make us a brotherhood of buddies in our open criticism of power- and fear-mongering, I'll grant you that..
So if you don't like to hear criticisms of your favorite illogical biblical fables, you really shouldn't wander over into the Atheism & Agnosticism sub-forum, where we Atheo-Religious types are waiting like Serpents.
Here... have an apple....
Fascinating. Please enlighten/educate me as to "what I've been missing."
The facts. That's all. Some people do manage to get along without them, more or less. I wonder how many Christians actually have a secret Spanish Inquisition memorial and devotional shrine down in their basement, You know, to remember the good old days, when atheists could be tortured and burned for free-thinking.
So far in this forum, atheism has demonstrated itself to be the proverbial home of dogmatism. Your entire post is laced with it.
Dare you to list my dogmatic points, and then I'll list Christianity's.
What have you been missing? To those who will not open their eyes and minds, all the facts about this world, where we came from, and possibly, where we're going, absent supernatural mythology and scare tactics. After all, why be satisfied with "Since we don't understand something yet, let's just default to a Goddunnit answer for everything!" That's what you've been missing.
I actually did all throughout high school and college. I was just having fun with those people.
And where am I dodging the hard questions? I've repeatedly asked for proof of Jesus and proof the world is 6000 years old, etc. in other threads.
Lurk more.
Esker, why? Why do you think it's "fun" to annoy people? I'm assuming you're male, like me, so I understand the pleasures of p*ssing people off Bart Simpson style just for the hell of it, but I grew out of that before my face cleared up from acne. You mention that you went to college, so you're old enough to move on to more rewarding things than to antagonize people over the principles and ideas they hold most sacred, the ones they use to create meaning and organize their lives.
Not everyone who believes in Jesus is a moron. It's moronic for you to assume that they are. Your straw men are also moronic. You present the most ridiculous arguments for religion as the only ones you've ever heard. I suppose you're the sort who likes to walk around assuming most people are beneath your "elevated" status as an intelligent person. People like you give atheism/agnosticism just as bad a reputation as strict, dogmatic fundamentalists give religion. I hope you call yourself a Wiccan or something because I don't want to be associated with anything associated with you.
Because that's where it really starts at. You guys love to sound intelligent and act like you have all the answers and that us believers are just a bunch of bumpkins....but bottom line is you have no clue.
Logically, the only reasonable intellectual position to take is that since the universe exists, it had to have a cause.
First, we don't assume to know everything. Only Christians claim that, frankly. We're quite open to new knowledge, to acknowledging that there's a never-ending search going on, and that existing knowledge is always open to improvement, revision or even rejection as our general body of knowledge improves.
Accordingly, we invented the standards for scientific investigation, to minimize hoaxery and scams [see: Free Miracle Water]. Through that system, we challenge accepted dogma and rituals.
We have no clue? We have lots of clues. You just won't accept any of them, except when that Q&A system comes up with ,say, the antibiotics that have probably saved your life from time to time. Or your laptop, your car, that aeroplane you rode in recently. Science, m'boy; it's the new thing! You might want to read up on it! The Earth's no longer flat! It's a fact!
Christianity, on the other hand, embraces solidified stultified & fossilized rigid ceremony, unquestioned rules and missives, strict adherance to long-held strictures and limitations: who can do what, say what and, yes, think what.
JP_Funeral08 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/12280727@N02/1270999877/ - broken link)
Yep. The universe exists and was therefore created. Duh!!! But the question is how. You choose the unquestioned insta-poof by an improbable uber-Creator. WE, who look into it with an ever-open-mind, have found lots of fascinating evidence already that tends towards a general unified theory. Not one lick of it came from the inerrant all-knowing bible.
None of what we're found that needs more explanation (sub-atomic particle physics, for instance) is answered by Christianity, (other than to just sit down and don't ask any more questions!) and yet we find more and more pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. Perhaps it's the complexity of it all that scares dogmo-theists? Yah think?
No wonder Christians do not approve of the Large Hadron Collider in France, and gleefully made fun of it's initial teething problems. They want it to fail. You want it to fail. WE, not so much. The truth does not disturb us.
Atheists have, largely, embraced scientific investigation as being far more honest and open to revision and improvement than rigid Christianity allows. mostly, from my experience, they're also deeply spiritual beings, but they just place their faith in more tangible and verifiable investigations.
Last edited by rifleman; 06-14-2009 at 12:02 PM..
Reason: typoz
the arguments are so easy to shoot down when you set 'em up as strawman arguments, arent' they?
You want evidence? We exist, as does the rest of the universe. Now...explain how it got here, if it wasn't created.
This proves my point. The whole argument for theism can be summed up into one single sentence: I don't know the answer, therefore god did it. This is intellectually lazy though. It assumes that just because you don't know the answer then that means god is the answer. This is not so though.
This proves my point. The whole argument for theism can be summed up into one single sentence: I don't know the answer, therefore god done did it. This is intellectually laxy though. It assumes that just because you don't know the answer then that means god is the answer. This is not so though.
On the other hand, you and others here seem to be of the opinion that "we don't know...but no way God did it".
Honestly...why not at least consider the possibility? Why not at least LOOK at the possible evidences?
On the other hand, you and others here seem to be of the opinion that "we don't know...but no way God did it".
Honestly...why not at least consider the possibility? Why not at least LOOK at the possible evidences?
Atheists don't rule out the possibility of god, but believers can't empirically verify that their god exists. They often pretend that there is empirical evidence for their god's existence and that atheists are refusing to accept it, but this is not so. If theists want atheists to consider their beliefs as being true then they will have to give evidence which empirically substantiates that their beliefs are true.
Atheists don't rule out the possibility of god, but believers can't empirically verify that their god exists. They often pretend that there is empirical evidence for their god's existence and that atheists are refusing to accept it, but this is not so. If theists want atheists to consider their beliefs as being true then they will have to give evidence which empirically substantiates that their beliefs are true.
Again...I think creation itself is empirical evidence for the existence of a creator.
Until you can show otherwise, your position really isn't valid. Sorry...it's just not.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ohhh... where do I start.....
