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I'm learning from reading this thread that I didn't do too bad when I was in ATL a week or so ago. A friend of mine took me around to see a bunch of night spots while I was there. I did make the error of going to Central Station. (He said he wanted me to see the hood as well). HOOD is exactly what it was.
But I did find most of the better spots listed here as well. I followed www.pinksugaratlanta.com most of the time I was there and faired pretty well. Still it's hard to tell from the blog which spots are going to be a professional chrowd. But with that blog, this thread, and my GPS, I think I'll be ok when i head back to ATL.
The one thing I did pick up while I was there is that ATL doesn't seem to have a separate set of spots for the 25 and up chrowds. It's everyone together (That is if you wish to stay away from the "Uncle ray Ray and nem" spots mentioned earlier in the thread. They seem to be 50 and up)
Again, I'd like to thank those who took time to give info.
(On a side note, I'm having problems listing the link to the blog. Are we allowed to post links here? Is there a specific format I should be using?)
As others have intimated, Atlanta is rare because venues that attract the black professional crowd are basically everywhere and not relegated to any singular Af-Am neighborhoods.
Interesting. In a city with a huge population of black professionals, I would have assumed an active nightlife would have grown up in affluent black neighborhoods (similar to the way it has in predominantly white neighborhoods). Wonder what the dynamics are behind that?
Thanks for the list, too. I've actually been to a few of these so maybe I'm cooler than I thought.
Interesting. In a city with a huge population of black professionals, I would have assumed an active nightlife would have grown up in affluent black neighborhoods (similar to the way it has in predominantly white neighborhoods). Wonder what the dynamics are behind that?
Thanks for the list, too. I've actually been to a few of these so maybe I'm cooler than I thought.
This is for two reasons, according to my observations:
- Most affluent black neighborhoods today are not in the central city. They are in suburbs. It's more a suburban/urban mentality than a black/white one. People largely choose the suburbs because they want to have peace and calm away from the city. So nightlife, while it may exist to some extent, is not going to be significantly placed in suburban communities as much as in the city. If you look at predominately white neighborhoods, most of these are in the suburbs as well. So their options are similarly limited.
- The city of Atlanta itself is very mixed. While more of the affluent residents in Atlanta are white, the shoppers, partiers, and diners are mixed. On top of that, a lot of affluent blacks choose to be in the mixed city as opposed to predominately black communities on the outskirts. So there's really no need to find a predominately black neighborhood with "black" nightlife because in Atlanta it's everywhere and we're everywhere, which I love. As opposed to NYC, which I was really turned off by, professional blacks aren't segregated into corners of Harlem and Brooklyn to have fun or lost in the crowds of white Manhattanites as tokens in the most posh places.
This is for two reasons, according to my observations:
- Most affluent black neighborhoods today are not in the central city. They are in suburbs. It's more a suburban/urban mentality than a black/white one. People largely choose the suburbs because they want to have peace and calm away from the city. So nightlife, while it may exist to some extent, is not going to be significantly placed in suburban communities as much as in the city. If you look at predominately white neighborhoods, most of these are in the suburbs as well. So their options are similarly limited.
- The city of Atlanta itself is very mixed. While more of the affluent residents in Atlanta are white, the shoppers, partiers, and diners are mixed. On top of that, a lot of affluent blacks choose to be in the mixed city as opposed to predominately black communities on the outskirts. So there's really no need to find a predominately black neighborhood with "black" nightlife because in Atlanta it's everywhere and we're everywhere, which I love. As opposed to NYC, which I was really turned off by, professional blacks aren't segregated into corners of Harlem and Brooklyn to have fun or lost in the crowds of white Manhattanites as tokens in the most posh places.
I was really thinking more of the intown (ITP) areas, which, sadly, are still pretty segregated. It seems like most of the areas favored by the professional crowd are in predominantly white neighborhoods rather than "everywhere" as you've suggested. And I don't mean to be argumentative by putting that in quotes -- just trying to be clear as to what we're talking about. It could be that the preferred nightlife somehow simply settled in mainly white neighborhoods by coincidence.
Of course it's all complicated by the fact that the vast majority of what we call intown Atlanta is actually quite suburban.
I was really thinking more of the intown (ITP) areas, which, sadly, are still pretty segregated. It seems like most of the areas favored by the professional crowd are in predominantly white neighborhoods rather than "everywhere" as you've suggested. And I don't mean to be argumentative by putting that in quotes -- just trying to be clear as to what we're talking about. It could be that the preferred nightlife somehow simply settled in mainly white neighborhoods by coincidence.
Of course it's all complicated by the fact that the vast majority of what we call intown Atlanta is actually quite suburban.
Everywhere geographically, regardless of racial makeup. I stated that the predominately affluent communities in the city are white. I cannot even think of a predominately black affluent community in the central city. This does not include the Cascade area, which is predominately black and affluent but suburban even though it is technically Atlanta. Other neighborhoods, like the West End, are mixed income-wise, so I wouldn't consider that a cut and dry "black affluent area."
When I say black folks are everywhere, I don't mean in terms of where they live. I'm talking about what you see that's relevant to nightlife--club-goers and diners.
As I was saying upthread, it's not that club owners and restaurateurs "chose" to be in white neighborhoods, it's that they chose to be in the central city. Those areas happen to be inhabited mostly by whites-- places along Peachtree St, near the major parks, places where historically there have been large congregations of shops and restaurants. Any smart entrepreneur would want the best locations regardless of the racial make up of the residents.
And same goes for black professional crowds. We want the nicest places to congregate with our folks, and the composition of who lives there is completely irrelevant in Atlanta nightlife. It's not like you're knocking on people's house doors to see who lives in them. All you see is who frequents the businesses. And in the A, black folks frequent practically every corner of the central city.
I find that you can't put the "black professional crowd" (BPC) in a particular box. Within the BPC, there are subsets. There's the 'Sol-Fusion Crowd', the 'Buppie Crowd', the 'I'm professional yet I HATE all professional events' crowd, etc. etc.
Every now and then, you get a mash-up of all the different groups...a perfect example was Art, Beats, +Lyrics in July. I ran into EVERYONE...my bourgie friends, my semi-hood friends, my earthy friends.
I tend to frequent the Sol-Fusion type events...so I'm more likely to be at things like HITP, One Atlanta Music Fest, etc.
A lot of it simply depends on what you like. This is why I love Atlanta so much...there's something for everyone.
Everywhere geographically, regardless of racial makeup. I stated that the predominately affluent communities in the city are white. I cannot even think of a predominately black affluent community in the central city. This does not include the Cascade area, which is predominately black and affluent but suburban even though it is technically Atlanta. Other neighborhoods, like the West End, are mixed income-wise, so I wouldn't consider that a cut and dry "black affluent area."
When I say black folks are everywhere, I don't mean in terms of where they live. I'm talking about what you see that's relevant to nightlife--club-goers and diners.
Right, and that's the phenomenon I'm talking about. Obviously, people can drive anywhere they want to party these days. It's just a little surprising that, given Atlanta's very large and affluent black population, the preferred entertainment venues are still concentrated in mainly white communities.
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As I was saying upthread, it's not that club owners and restaurateurs "chose" to be in white neighborhoods, it's that they chose to be in the central city. Those areas happen to be inhabited mostly by whites-- places along Peachtree St, near the major parks, places where historically there have been large congregations of shops and restaurants. Any smart entrepreneur would want the best locations regardless of the racial make up of the residents.
Well, historically there have been large congregations of shops and restaurants in many parts of the city, as well as major parks. I grew up on the west side and if you cruise through West End, Lakewood, College Park or Westview, or along streets like Cascade, MLK or Beecher, you'll see many charming commercial areas that could easily rival Midtown, Buckhead, Inman Park or Virginia-Highland. Someday entrepreneurs may give them attention, since there are certainly affluent populations nearby to support them. Maybe the Beltline will be the catalyst.
Right, and that's the phenomenon I'm talking about. Obviously, people can drive anywhere they want to party these days. It's just a little surprising that, given Atlanta's very large and affluent black population, the preferred entertainment venues are still concentrated in mainly white communities.
Well, historically there have been large congregations of shops and restaurants in many parts of the city, as well as major parks. I grew up on the west side and if you cruise through West End, Lakewood, College Park or Westview, or along streets like Cascade, MLK or Beecher, you'll see many charming commercial areas that could easily rival Midtown, Buckhead, Inman Park or Virginia-Highland. Someday entrepreneurs may give them attention, since there are certainly affluent populations nearby to support them. Maybe the Beltline will be the catalyst.
If I'm understanding correctly, you're asking why these black areas didn't become the equivalents of Virginia-Highland, Little 5 and others? For one, Va-Hi and the like are closer to the city's central business districts than College Park and Lakewood. CP and Lakewood are still suburban. Westview and the West End are closer to the city, but are still mostly residential.
The only place that can be comparable in this argument, as it was a affluent black neighborhood in the central city, is Auburn Avenue. It didn't become a Va-Hi because of desegregation in the 60s. With desegregation, a lot of affluent blacks in Atlanta moved further out into the suburbs and into more mixed communities. Suburbs don't really have the kind of concentrated nightlife a city would have, so even though a lot of upwardly mobile Blacks moved to the suburbs they still congregated in the city for nightlife.
As Atlanta has continued to gentrify, these neighborhoods' demographics have shifted from being poor and black (and thus devoid of the hangouts professional blacks would go to) to becoming more white residentially, more affluent, and attracting business frequented by various races in the "professional" class.
If I'm understanding correctly, you're asking why these black areas didn't become the equivalents of Virginia-Highland, Little 5 and others?
Well, sort of. I was actually replying to your statement that club owners and restaurateurs didn't choose white neighborhoods, it's that they chose to be in the central city and the areas they picked just happened to be inhabited mostly by whites. I believe this occurred by choice, not happenstance.
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For one, Va-Hi and the like are closer to the city's central business districts than College Park and Lakewood. CP and Lakewood are still suburban. Westview and the West End are closer to the city, but are still mostly residential.
I'd have to differ on that. Virginia-Highland is just as suburban as other neighborhoods of its vintage. They're all oriented around single family homes with the automobile as the primary mode of travel. And they're all close to the city's main commercial districts. As in these other areas, the commercial strip in Virginia-Highland evolved to serve the immediately surrounding residential neighborhoods. If anything, the most urban in form and history of these neighborhoods is West End.
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As Atlanta has continued to gentrify, these neighborhoods' demographics have shifted from being poor and black (and thus devoid of the hangouts professional blacks would go to) to becoming more white residentially, more affluent, and attracting business frequented by various races in the "professional" class.
You're getting closer to the question I'm trying (not very artfully) to tease out. As Atlanta has developed large and prosperous black neighborhoods, why hasn't there been a corresponding growth of nightlife in those areas that appeals to the young professional crowd?
And I appreciate the argument that well to do blacks have tended to locate in suburbs on the south and west side and in DeKalb, but in a sense that begs the same question: why live there, rather than in communities where their preferred nightlife is?
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