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I've been trying to get a handle on the specifics how the proposed new rail lines would affect our metro area, and would love to see links to any of the studies that have been done.
I know this data is a few years old but the latest numbers for station ridership are from 2007. Is it safe to assume these are still about right (i.e., within 10% or so)?
The top 10 busiest MARTA stations are: Five Points (25,200 daily passengers), Airport (11,500), Hamilton E. Holmes (10,600), College Park (9,500), Kensington (9,200), Lindbergh Center (8,200), Peachtree Center (7,900), West End (7,970), Arts Center (7,200) and Avondale (6,400).
If Avondale is no. 10 at 6,400 riders per day, I'd assume Dunwoody/Perimeter is probably in the range of 6,000 per day. Would that be a safe ballpark figure?
If there was a station at Cumberland, it seems to me it would most likely resemble the station at Dunwoody, with similar ridership. Is that also a safe guess?
Is 6,000 riders a day enough to justify the Cobb-Midtown line? If those figures are correct, how would the economics work out?
Also, aside from ridership and financial projections, what other effects are these lines likely to have? I'd love to see the projections.
I've been trying to get a handle on the specifics how the proposed new rail lines would affect our metro area, and would love to see links to any of the studies that have been done.
I know this data is a few years old but the latest numbers for station ridership are from 2007. Is it safe to assume these are still about right (i.e., within 10% or so)?
The top 10 busiest MARTA stations are: Five Points (25,200 daily passengers), Airport (11,500), Hamilton E. Holmes (10,600), College Park (9,500), Kensington (9,200), Lindbergh Center (8,200), Peachtree Center (7,900), West End (7,970), Arts Center (7,200) and Avondale (6,400).
If Avondale is no. 10 at 6,400 riders per day, I'd assume Dunwoody/Perimeter is probably in the range of 6,000 per day. Would that be a safe ballpark figure?
If there was a station at Cumberland, it seems to me it would most likely resemble the station at Dunwoody, with similar ridership. Is that also a safe guess?
Is 6,000 riders a day enough to justify the Cobb-Midtown line? If those figures are correct, how would the economics work out?
Also, aside from ridership and financial projections, what other effects are these lines likely to have? I'd love to see the projections.
Thanks!
Cumberland's numbers could possibly be more similar to Hamilton H. Holmes.
Why so, aries? I'm not arguing, just wondering what your thinking is.
The Cobb commuting data suggests that things are really not that awful.
50% of workers get to work in 29 minutes or less. If you include commutes of up to 44 minutes you've covered 77% of workers. Only 11% driver more than 60 minutes.
So how much impact would rail have on those numbers?
Of course there are other considerations but I'd think shorter commute times would be a major selling point.
Why so, aries? I'm not arguing, just wondering what your thinking is.
The Cobb commuting data suggests that things are really not that awful.
50% of workers get to work in 29 minutes or less. If you include commutes of up to 44 minutes you've covered 77% of workers. Only 11% driver more than 60 minutes.
So how much impact would rail have on those numbers?
Of course there are other considerations but I'd think shorter commute times would be a major selling point.
arjay...no need to make things complicated. Before I do the thinking-work for you, I want you to figure why I suggested H.E. Holmes as a possible numbers projection for Cumberland. It is fairly simple. I can give you some keys words on a future post if needed.
Last edited by aries4118; 09-19-2011 at 02:40 PM..
I've been trying to get a handle on the specifics how the proposed new rail lines would affect our metro area, and would love to see links to any of the studies that have been done.
The top 10 busiest MARTA stations are: Five Points (25,200 daily passengers), Airport (11,500), Hamilton E. Holmes (10,600), College Park (9,500), Kensington (9,200), Lindbergh Center (8,200), Peachtree Center (7,900), West End (7,970), Arts Center (7,200) and Avondale (6,400).
If there was a station at Cumberland, it seems to me it would most likely resemble the station at Dunwoody, with similar ridership. Is that also a safe guess?
Is 6,000 riders a day enough to justify the Cobb-Midtown line? If those figures are correct, how would the economics work out?
Thanks!
I don't think so, I feel that the area it serves would put it at one of the top 10 Stations in the systems as a terminal station as well as a station located in a major employment center. Hopefully the people in the county will ride it.
Cumberland Station would serve as a terminus station which normally have more riders that a regular in-line station like Dunwoody. Hopefully the station could pull 7-8 thousand commuters per day off the road maybe 1500-2000 riding up to Cumberland and maybe about 4000 riding into the city.
Now the station that I am worried about is the Station that will be located at Paces Ferry and I-75 The ridership at that station will be dismal probally one of the lowest ranking stations.
I don't think so, I feel that the area it serves would put it at one of the top 10 Stations in the systems as a terminal station as well as a station located in a major employment center. Hopefully the people in the county will ride it.
Cumberland Station would serve as a terminus station which normally have more riders that a regular in-line station like Dunwoody. Hopefully the station could pull 7-8 thousand commuters per day off the road maybe 1500-2000 riding up to Cumberland and maybe about 4000 riding into the city.
Now the station that I am worried about is the Station that will be located at Paces Ferry and I-75 The ridership at that station will be dismal probally one of the lowest ranking stations.
The route may not travel along I-75, although it is an option. The other route takes it along Marietta Blvd through the Bolton Road area to South Atlanta Rd/285 and then follows 285 to Cumberland. This route would most likely serve more people but nothing has been chosen yet. I still think it should be a heavy rail extension of MARTA and not light rail.
I personally think there are not enough rail extensions into the suburbs on this list, and the money allocated for for a few large road projects could be diverted to more rail.
For example, the GA400 collector distributor lanes ($170,000,000) as well as the Rucker Road and SR 140 operational improvements ($19,000,000 and $18,600,000 respectively) shouldn't be on the list. However, I do support the 400/285 interchange improvement project on the list.
The current outdated 400/285 interchange is the cause for most of the traffic on 400 in both directions around Sandy Springs and therefore the collector distributor lanes are not needed if the interchange project is included on the list. It also does not provide a true transit alternative for the 400/North Fulton corridor. Also, the Rucker Road and SR 140 operational improvements are not really regional projects, but serve mostly local residents and can be funded by the local portion of this tax.
The total for all 3 of these projects is $207,600,000 that in addition to the $37,000,000 already allocated could be shifted towards extending MARTA heavy rail north to Holcomb Bridge Rd in Roswell. This would have a greater regional impact and federal and MARTA funds can be leveraged to secure the rest of the funding. If more money is needed for the heavy rail north extension, why not take some money off of the 400/285 interchange project? The interchange does not need to be fully funded by this tax and the rest of the money can and SHOULD come from GDOT. Finally, the federal government usually requires a 40% local match to secure federal transit dollars and if this project costs at least $1 billion, that would mean a $400 million local match which by reallocating the funds above and leveraging some MARTA funds would make this project a very viable candidate for federal transit money which could be used to secure the rest of the money and complete the project.
Another example is the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension ($296,000,000), the SR 141 widening from Peachtree Industrial to the Chattahoochee River ($46,000,000), and the Five Forks Trickum widening ($10,400,000). I do believe the type of connectivity that the Sugarloaf Parkway extension would provide is needed in Gwinnett County, however this should be a toll road built by GDOT and not with money from this tax referendum. This project has other means of being funded and the money allocated for it can be used to build the beginning of transit alternatives for Gwinnett County that currently do not have any means of funding other than in this transportation referendum. Having traveled the SR 141 corridor in rush hour between Peachtree Industrial and the river, traffic is not bad enough to warrant spending $46 million on widening this portion of the road and the Five Forks Trickum Road widening would mostly serve local residents and can be funded through the local portion of this tax.
Together these 3 projects equal $352,400,000 which coupled with the $95 million already allocated towards the I-85 transit corridor can be used to help build a MARTA northeast extension from Doraville to Norcross and beyond. This is a total of $447,400,000 which is more than the cost of extending MARTA to Norcross which means this money can be leveraged with federal funds to extend MARTA heavy rail even further into Gwinnett giving people in that part of the county a true transit alternative to traffic on I-85. Spending $95 million to study light rail is a waste of money and requiring people to transfer from light rail to MARTA heavy rail in Doraville will significantly hurt ridership as numerous studies show that transferring causes ridership to drop. MARTA heavy rail can easily be extended into Gwinnett, it can carry more people and travel faster than light rail, and would create a SEAMLESS transit alternative.
To me, the above makes more sense and I've already expressed my opinion but if you all haven't already, please take the survey here:
The route may not travel along I-75, although it is an option. The other route takes it along Marietta Blvd through the Bolton Road area to South Atlanta Rd/285 and then follows 285 to Cumberland. This route would most likely serve more people but nothing has been chosen yet. I still think it should be a heavy rail extension of MARTA and not light rail.
I personally think there are not enough rail extensions into the suburbs on this list, and the money allocated for for a few large road projects could be diverted to more rail.
I totally agree there was not enough good rail on the list. I would've love seeing the commuter rail to Macon on the list. I received a email from the Georgia Rail passenger program where the federal government has reduced the cost for the project by 60% so maybe it can be financed a different way.
I also agree about Heavy Rail if it was to follow the Marietta Rd Corridor that would serve a lot more people. But I actually like light rail as a choice if it was to follow 75 because of the lower ridership.
Before I do the thinking-work for you, I want you to figure why I suggested H.E. Holmes as a possible numbers projection for Cumberland. It is fairly simple. I can give you some keys words on a future post if needed.
No need to do any thinking-work, aries. I was simply wondering why you thought Cumberland ridership would be more like H.E. Holmes than Dunwoody/Perimeter. If it's easier to respond in key words in a future post that's fine but I may miss it.
To me a Cumberland station would be roughly analogous to Perimeter for three reasons : (1) it would be located in a huge shopping/office district; (2) it would be adjacent to a major junction on the northern arc of 285; and (3) it would eventually be the continuation point to an additional line further out into Cobb County.
... I feel that the area it serves would put it at one of the top 10 Stations in the systems as a terminal station as well as a station located in a major employment center. Hopefully the people in the county will ride it.
You're thinking the station would get a lot of riders heading out of the city of Atlanta to jobs in the Cumberland area? Or vice versa, or both?
Why are we comparing just one of four MARTA stations in the Central Perimeter area with the entire line to Cumberland (where they might also have several stations)? That just doesn't seem apples-to-apples to me.
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