Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I understand being against sales taxes, but in the event that you're going to have a sales tax, is there any real justification for online retailers not having to collect it? I guess it's valid to say that you oppose all sales taxes, but people don't seem to want to come out and say that.
Also, I haven't seen anything to justify that lower income folks spend a disproportionately large chunk of their income in online shopping. Middle class I guess I can buy, but lower class folks sometimes don't have good access to the internet, and often don't use credit cards.
The fact that it's 8% does bewilder me. I would think they would have it set to the lowest county rate in the state (which I believe is 5%).
It's a pretty miniscule tax -- only $18,000,000 a year according to the news article.
That's about 1/10 of 1% of the state's annual revenue.
It's a pretty miniscule tax -- only $18,000,000 a year according to the news article.
That's about 1/10 of 1% of the state's annual revenue.
So I've heard. Seems pretty low to me. Amazon does $50 billion in sales annually. Assuming 2% of that happens in GA and is covered by tax, you'd get $1 billion in sales here, or $80 million in taxes. And that's just one retailer.
I'd be pretty skeptical that Georgia only spends $250 million annually in online shopping (which would imply ~$18 million in tax revenue). The average Georgian spending only $25/year online? There's just no way. I spend $200-$300, and I barely ever online shop (maybe 3-4x/year). Some people I know spend thousands.
So I've heard. Seems pretty low to me. Amazon does $50 billion in sales annually. Assuming 2% of that happens in GA and is covered by tax, you'd get $1 billion in sales here, or $80 million in taxes. And that's just one retailer.
I'd be pretty skeptical that Georgia only spends $250 million annually in online shopping (which would imply ~$18 million in tax revenue). The average Georgian spending only $25/year online? There's just no way. I spend $200-$300, and I barely ever online shop (maybe 3-4x/year). Some people I know spend thousands.
Yeah, but this population is skewed. I doubt more than 10% of the population does ANY online shopping. It seems like a lot to us, but we are a self selected group. Most of my friends do little if any online shopping aside for books. They were amazed when I told them I auto buy diapers from Amazon.
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,118 posts, read 6,377,507 times
Reputation: 3547
Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50
I understand being against sales taxes, but in the event that you're going to have a sales tax, is there any real justification for online retailers not having to collect it? I guess it's valid to say that you oppose all sales taxes, but people don't seem to want to come out and say that.)))
No I can't think of one. Until sales tax is abolished, if you've got a location in GA and have an online store, you should have to collect and/or pay sales tax but if you don't then you shouldn't.
That's a complete 180 from what I believe about sales tax but fair is fair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50
(((Also, I haven't seen anything to justify that lower income folks spend a disproportionately large chunk of their income in online shopping. Middle class I guess I can buy, but lower class folks sometimes don't have
good access to the internet, and often don't use credit cards.)))
The facts are out there. And I'm not just talking about online purchases. We even pay tax on food! It's outrageous in my opinion to penalize someone for buying a can of beans.
I can afford to pay more taxes than low income earners in this state and I would be willing to pay more in taxes if they were collected by income.
Amazon is eating their lunch because they have something locals don't have endless inventory. However, if locals provided better customer service they could hold their own. But they won't do that. My guy at Sears has bern selling appliances for more than twenty years. Most of these stores hire part time, inexperienced staff that donn't know the product and could not possibly care less. And that's why they will fail. God knows if Amazon offers same day delivery I will never go to a store again.
You are EXACTLY right!
It's the same tired old argument against places like Wal-Mart and Home Depot. Local shops whine and complain that they can't compete on price...and you know, that just might be true. However, local shops CAN compete on service. Everyone knows you get cheaper prices at Wal-Mart or Home Depot, but we also know that you're going to be standing in long lines begging for help from people who don't care (not so much at HD, but Wal-Mart for sure). All local stores have to do to compete is stop even trying to compete on price and just step up their service offerings. Most people who need a specific type of nail would rather pay 25% more for it at a local hardware store where they can get someone to help find it immediately instead of aimlessly wandering around Home Depot looking for it. The problem is many local businesses don't know how to compete, so they'd rather complain than change the way they operate.
Amazon is a perfect example. How can a place where you receive absolutely zero help compete with a local business where you can get one one one attention? As Roslyn pointed out, it can compete because most of the local businesses have dropped the ball and don't give you adequate attention. Or they give you a sales person hung up on commission who isn't as trustworthy as the user reviews on Amazon. My point is Amazon isn't slaughtering local businesses because it operates tax free, it is doing so because local businesses haven't figured out how to leverage the huge advantage they have if they would just choose to exercise it. Amazingly, you'll generally pay less shipping for an appliance to be sent to you from some warehouse in California from Amazon than you would pay for delivery from a store 5 miles down the street. There's something wrong with that, and local businesses need to figure it out or else slaughter is their deserved fate.
Even if this 8% tax sticks, even if there isn't a way around it, local businesses are still going to suffer until they figure out how to compete. The online advantage has much more to do with well run companies than tax savings. Amazon wasn't born as a behemoth with billions of dollars in capital. It was a couple of guys with a great idea and incredible savvy and that is why it has succeeded.
One final note regarding price: Even though I will miss Borders, I'm glad it failed. It deserved to. Borders refused to discount most of its books at the retail level. So a book with a $39.99 MSRP would cost that much at Borders, but Amazon would have it for $22 or $23. You can't tell me that Amazon has so much purchasing power that it literally gets books for HALF as much as Borders pays. Even more amazingly, you'd generally be able to find the same book discounted to maybe $30 at Borders.com. So if the physical store would just discount as much as its online presence, which it seems like it could given they have the same exact purchasing power, that price differential may make it more worthwhile to pay in order to have the book immediately instead of in 2 or 3 days. But nobody is going to pay double instead of waiting. And that's why Borders failed and Barnes & Noble probably will too.
The facts are out there. And I'm not just talking about online purchases. We even pay tax on food! It's outrageous in my opinion to penalize someone for buying a can of beans.
I can afford to pay more taxes than low income earners in this state and I would be willing to pay more in taxes if they were collected by income.
Of course sales taxes are regressive. I just don't know how regressive sales taxes from online purchases are.
Yeah, but this population is skewed. I doubt more than 10% of the population does ANY online shopping. It seems like a lot to us, but we are a self selected group. Most of my friends do little if any online shopping aside for books. They were amazed when I told them I auto buy diapers from Amazon.
I don't know about that. According to latest surveys, ~50% shop online at least once per year. And they spend about a grand each.
I'm also not saying this will save main street or anything. Maybe a one percentage point swing in shopping brick and mortar vs online will occur, at best--online shopping is growing so fast this kind of impact would be unnoticeable anyways. The issues, to me, are revenue and fairness. If you're going to levy taxes, at least levy them evenly and fairly.
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,118 posts, read 6,377,507 times
Reputation: 3547
Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50
Of course sales taxes are regressive. I just don't know how regressive sales taxes from online purchases are.
Oh I see what you're saying. Well, my response to that is you don't have to be a low income individual to spend more of your take home pay online than a wealthy person. This isn't just about the poor.
Oh I see what you're saying. Well, my response to that is you don't have to be a low income individual to spend more of your take home pay online than a wealthy person. This isn't just about the poor.
Right. My possibly-mistaken impression of online shopping is that it's mainly used by busy, working, middle class people looking for (1) convenience/ease of use and (2) easy price/quality comparison on goods they buy infrequently. For lower-income people, I'd venture that online shopping isn't as convenient (credit card/internet issues) and that they devote a larger chunk of spending on the bare necessities (food/clothing) and delay purchase of durable goods as long as they possibly can (appliances, tools, etc). But that's all just conjecture, thinking about my last few purchases (ice cube trays, a clothes drying rack, a video game controller).
With upper income folks, it's difficult to say. My guess is they spend more gross money online than middle income people online, but a smaller percentage of their income.
Regardless, it still only accounts for about 7% of sales.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
