Should Georgia State worry? Kennesaw State U opens opens $21 million, 73,000-square-foot science lab (Atlanta: university, statistics)

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

What I think is holding GSU back is a lack of a campus and a weak suburban presence.

The suburban presence has grown a lot in the last few years.

Alpharetta — Robinson College of Business — Georgia State University

Brookhaven — Robinson College of Business — Georgia State University

Buckhead — Robinson College of Business — Georgia State University

Henry County — Robinson College of Business — Georgia State University

Peachtree-Dunwoody — Robinson College of Business — Georgia State University

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by gumboula

In that I actually have a job to do and I swore to myself that I would stay out of this... I just want to quickly point out that the urban campus is a strength of GSU, not a weakness, and GSU is not looking for a suburban presence. While many on this board have quite a fear of downtown, GSU students don't. The firm contracted by the university to update its master plan found that the urban campus was a primary reason students came to GSU. And as soon as a dorm opens, it is filled to capacity. Moreover, GSU is anything but hemmed in by being in downtown. Over the past ten years, GSU has doubled the physical space it inhabits downtown. The new master plan identified three primary corridors for continued growth, one of which is the Courtland/Piedmont corridor. Come downtown at 10:00 at night and drive north on Piedmont from Decatur St. to Ellis St. (or walk it if you can get past your irrational fear!). You will be shocked by the amount of foot traffic. The dormitories have been a game changer.

Well said!

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

The suburban presence has grown a lot in the last few years.

I'm talking major 200+acres campus. Georgia Perimeter recently got 100 acres for another campus in Newton.

http://depts.gpc.edu/newton/#.UNSdkInjkVM

GSU nearly merged with Georgia Perimeter (then Dekalb College) about 30 years ago. But I believe then president Noah Langdale insisted their students had to formerly transfer rather than accept them outright so that killed the deal. Really, I wish Noah Langdale had retired 10 years sooner than the did.

[dichloromethane]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

"Up-and-coming" is a very subjective call. It's not hard numbers analysis.

The methodology is there. All you need to do is read it. An up-and-coming assessment is better than throwing around opinions backed with few, if any facts.


How do you assess that? What is Georgia Southern's level in engineering?

You can assess a program's strength by faculty:student radio, graduation rates, incoming freshman statistics, research expenditure, reputation, size, expansion over time, shrinkage over time(something SPSU is a victim of), satisfaction of students, satisfaction of faculty etc.


Georgia Southern has little research as it is. And how much of that is engineering? From my GT perspective, Georgia Southern's engineering is no better than SPSU's.

Georgia Southern doesn't do much research because Georgia Southern isn't a research university.

That being said, they still do a whole lot more than SPSU or KSU.


And how much is directed toward engineering? By that logic if SPSU merged with GSU, the SPSU engineering programs would immediately outclass Georgia Southern on day one.

By logic, more money would go towards engineering than it would art. What requires more money? Art history research or engineering research? Where are you coming up with this? First of all, mergers mean a little more than administrative changes and a new logo for the first six months. Second of all, I don't know if you pay much attention to actual numbers and budgeting. I can tell you know a whole lot about history, but GSU won't suddenly become Michigan State overnight. My whole reason for an SPSU merger was that fact that the school is not doing as well as it should. And I would be skeptical to think a GSU-SPSU merger would be a little more than ego boosting for GSU alumni. Seems a lot like a Michael Adams move.


Are those rates for the overall institutions including non-engineering?

They are. If you can find the engineering specific data, I would want to take a look.

Why not? UGA is essentially starting EE, ME, and CE from scratch.

UGA is a flagship research university with the money and political prowess to do what they want. Engineering was long over due at UGA. I wish Adams wouldn't have essentially taken a bite out of CAES and expanded onto that, but at least they did. It's a needed step for UGA's own 21st century transition.

Tell that to GHSU.

Again, mind the numbers, not the journalists. GHSU faculty won't be so restless when their kid at GT is studying in a newly built study facility that would've been spent failing kids out of college..or maybe it'll just go towards Azziz's salary. Point is it was a merger that made sense financially and academically. Nothing is ever done perfectly. In the case of GSU-SPSU, academics, institution goals, finances, location and politics all run the tide against the merger.


Sure we do. I don't see why to arbitrarily cut it off at two.

That's because I don't think you read our budget - or lack of for that matter.

So, SPSU does have a potential for being a strong program? That's where GSU would take it before moving on to research. But no, I don't think an engineering program in Statesboro will foster growth in Augusta and Macon. Nice talk to justify the programs, but at best it might help Savannah.

Georgia southern is a lot closer to Augusta and Macon than SPSU and GSU are. I'd have to look at where GA Southern students enroll from vs where SPSU students enroll from. I'd also be willing to bet that students who prefer living in Statesboro as opposed to Atlanta will be more likely to live in Augusta or Macon. KSU-SPSU could still cater to North Georgia. Boom. You have your rural engineer problem solved. UGA can handle the middle turf. GT will handle the top engineering work.

By that logic, we'd all fall into inaction because we can't anticipate with certainty the future. GSU-SPSU engineering is a reasonable target and goal.

Again, numbers. I don't have all of them, so I won't say anything. I am the one who brought up the 10-year trend numbers by the way. What I just is the difference between academics and politicians. There's a lot of great stuff we could do if we could work off logic alone, but the money isn't there.

I do agree what you say when you say GSU should make use of mergers while the opportunity lasts. Going back to page one of this 83 post thread, if they do nothing then GSU will continue to fall behind. GGC-GSU. I don't think UGA will bother to block it. Adams will be gone and the BOR has learned it's lesson. We're free to return to sanity. Focus on the Gwinnett campus isn't exactly a highlight of the new strategic plan.

Zanarkand A East, yes that's a good point. Which is why I think a GGC merger is not only more likely to happen but more favorable. It's all part of the [strategic] plan.

[dichloromethane]

And in regards to football, branding, GA Southern an KSU:

Georgia State currently plays in the Sun Belt conference. I think they just started that this year. The only reason they were able to so quickly is because they basically hitched a free ride on the Georgia Dome.

Georgia Southern also plans to move to a Bowl division. They are currently in the process of expanding their football stadium. At Georgia Southern the STUDENTS voted for an increase in tuition to support the football expansion. Football is a lot more popular with students than it is at GSU.

Meanwhile, former UGA coach, Vince Dooley is helping with KSU's football program. The program will begin in 2014 or 2015.

Just a little food for thought regarding our two story Georgia Dome and increased spending towards athletics.

[ChefRamsey]

Vince Dooley is working with KSU..? Oh eff...

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by dichloromethane

And in regards to football, branding, GA Southern an KSU:

Georgia State currently plays in the Sun Belt conference. I think they just started that this year. The only reason they were able to so quickly is because they basically hitched a free ride on the Georgia Dome.

It really had more to do with the Atlanta TV market than anything else.

Georgia Southern also plans to move to a Bowl division. They are currently in the process of expanding their football stadium. At Georgia Southern the STUDENTS voted for an increase in tuition to support the football expansion. Football is a lot more popular with students than it is at GSU.

And they lack a TV market.

[ChefRamsey]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

It really had more to do with the Atlanta TV market than anything else.


And they lack a TV market.

HAHAHA nobody watches the Sun Belt. It's not even publicly broadcasted. There is no Atlanta TV market. The only hope for the sun belt is if they merged with C-USA. Personally, I think the age of mega conferences has arrived once again. BIG 10, BIG 12, SEC, an PAC. Big East and ACC will eventually go away.

Honestly, small schools lose money with athletics. The only programs that are profitable is football and basketball. Basketball is pretty big here, and i think if we expanded on that..it would be good. Focus on academics too. Why is a 'research university' fighting over football with KSU and Georgia Southern?

We went 6-5 in 2010, 3-8 in 2011 and 1-10 in 2012. STOP WASTING MY MONEY.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by ChefRamsey

Honestly, small schools lose money with athletics. The only programs that are profitable is football and basketball. Basketball is pretty big here, and i think if we expanded on that..it would be good. Focus on academics too.

Georgia is not really a basketball state like North Carolina. We get into basketball when football season is over. GSU tried to emphasize basketball with Lefty Driesell. Lefty did well but it didn't budge the fan base much. I think the problem, for now, is that Curry is not a good coach. Maybe a new coaching staff will make a difference in winning like Hunter seems to be doing for GSU basketball.

Why is a 'research university' fighting over football with KSU and Georgia Southern?
We went 6-5 in 2010, 3-8 in 2011 and 1-10 in 2012. STOP WASTING MY MONEY.

I'm not sure what your point is. UGA and GT are research universities too. And teams can have bad seasons.

[ChefRamsey]

Friends don't let friends start football teams in the middle of a recession.