What makes North Fulton and Cobb Schools so much better than all the rest? (Atlanta: home, neighborhoods)

[OhioNative]

It also boils down to the administration and teachers. I voluntarily pay tuition to send my gifted kid to a Title I, majority- minority public school with such a high poverty rate that every kid gets a free school lunch, yet she gets a much better education and is much happier than she was in the affluent school where she is zoned to attend. On paper it would seem to make no sense, but it's the best fit for us.

[lastminutemom]

You aren't (in my opinion) comparing apples to apples.

For elementary school, probably not. For middle school and high school, maybe. A lot depends on the kid, the public school and the family.

Even with the relatively high socio-economic levels of the public schools you mentioned, the top intown privates are much more homogeneous. This makes for an easier teaching environment, it makes it easier to recruit top teaching talent in hard to fill areas (high school math and science) and you have a very competitive student body (which works for some kids and breaks the spirit of others.) Everyone is going to college and most likely everyone's parents did too. The counselors can spend all their time focused on moving forward and small bumps in the road as opposed to worrying about the kids who are looking at dropping out. For the schools I think you are thinking about, no resources are used for special ed, english language learners etc.

I want to comment on something that was said above -- one of the things that makes NF and Cobb schools "better" is that the parents are educated and have some sense (sometimes wrong, usually right) of what a bad teacher looks like. And these parents can be very demanding and those teachers sometimes don't last long. Compare that to an inner city high school where most parents aren't educated, are working multiple jobs to support themselves and well, you get the picture. (In DeKalb, the high schools with the most poor kids have the least qualified principals, go figure.)

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

...
The relation between socioeconomic status and educational achievement is well documented and universally understood.

^^^^^
This.

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

No disrespect to the OP, but I find it rather shocking that anybody would seriously have to ask this question.

The relation between socioeconomic status and educational achievement is well documented and universally understood.

So the northern suburbs are the only places in the metro with wealth? North Atlanta is nearly in the heart of Buckhead. Are you saying that zero percent of parents with money dare send their children there? Last I heard, Ansley Park, Inman Park, Candler Park, and even Grant Park and certain pockets of Kirkwood are pretty affluent areas. Are you saying that none of these families would send their children to the local schools, (like the Grady, Jackson, or Druid Hills clusters) with the hope of succeeding.

I believe I also asked about private schools, but no one has responded yet. I would assume one would have to be at least solidly middle class to afford any private school and live relatively comfortably. Are you saying a child attending Woodward, or the Friend's School, or the Atlanta International School is still worst off than a student attending Pope or Sprayberry?

The point is, what are the trade offs, if any? Does a middle class kid with a good family that grew up and went to the local schools in Grant Park or Kirkwood any worse off than if the same student went to Lassiter or North Springs? Are the intown private schools and the northern suburban schools pretty much comparable?

[Mattie]

I don't think money is really the answer, I think it boils down to parental expectations. My kids went to Milton High, which admittedly is a beautiful building. But, if we didn't expect them to succeed, they could have succumbed to coasting, just as easily as kids in poorer districts can. We have no less than three busloads of kids arriving daily from the city of Atlanta schools, and I tip my hat to the parents who encourage it, and students, who endure that bus ride every day.

Our eldest went to private school, in Florida, and did not have the resources Milton does. So yes, I would say some public schools are on par with some of the privates.

[lastminutemom]

Originally Posted by equinox63

So the northern suburbs are the only places in the metro with wealth? North Atlanta is nearly in the heart of Buckhead. Are you saying that zero percent of parents with money dare send their children there? Last I heard, Ansley Park, Inman Park, Candler Park, and even Grant Park and certain pockets of Kirkwood are pretty affluent areas. Are you saying that none of these families would send their children to the local schools, (like the Grady, Jackson, or Druid Hills clusters) with the hope of succeeding.

I believe I also asked about private schools, but no one has responded yet. I would assume one would have to be at least solidly middle class to afford any private school and live relatively comfortably. Are you saying a child attending Woodward, or the Friend's School, or the Atlanta International School is still worst off than a student attending Pope or Sprayberry?

The point is, what are the trade offs, if any? Does a middle class kid with a good family that grew up and went to the local schools in Grant Park or Kirkwood any worse off than if the same student went to Lassiter or North Springs? Or are the intown private schools and the northern suburban schools pretty much comparable?

I tried to answer the question on private schools. I see little value in private school elementary schools if you are in a good school and your child is doing well there.

I don' t think you find the wealthiest families in Atlanta in intown public schools, especially high school. But there are many middle class families in public school in Atlanta.

You have picked a strange combination of private schools. Friends and AIS generally don't attract the same audience. The students who attend those schools aren't worse off than those who attend solid public schools. The question is are they $______ off? Clearly many of these families are making a choice. If they have a couple of children, the 40000 they are spending for tuition a year could easily move them into a different school district.

I am going to answer your last question with maybe (and I wouldn't put N. Springs in the same category as Lassister by the way). If a child can find peers that can encourage and support a high school career focused on academic success then a child can be successful anywhere. It may be easier to find that peer group at a suburban high school that has little economic diversity and few poor people but it might not be.

Have you seen this piece from the NY Times? While I would argue that we don't really have a school like Dalton (Westminster might be close), it is an interesting perspective about an African American's family's journey through a high-end, college prep private school. I think it speaks to the advantages and disadvantages better than I can. This is just an excerpt, the full link will be on PBS next year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/op...?ref=education

[lastminutemom]

Originally Posted by Mattie

I don't think money is really the answer, I think it boils down to parental expectations. My kids went to Milton High, which admittedly is a beautiful building. But, if we didn't expect them to succeed, they could have succumbed to coasting, just as easily as kids in poorer districts can. We have no less than three busloads of kids arriving daily from the city of Atlanta schools, and I tip my hat to the parents who encourage it, and students, who endure that bus ride every day.

Our eldest went to private school, in Florida, and did not have the resources Milton does. So yes, I would say some public schools are on par with some of the privates.

Quick correction -- they are coming from S. Fulton not the City of Atlanta. No interdistrict transfers here.

[ATLTJL]

I don't think it has as much to do with wealth as it does the values of parents and how they raise their kids.

Why do North Fulton and East Cobb have the best teachers? It's not because the schools are wealthier. As a matter of fact, teachers get paid LESS at these schools than they do at the more troubled schools.

The reason they get better teachers is because the best teachers get frustrated dealing with discipline problems instead of teaching students that want to learn. That's why the good school, that don't pay combat pay, get to choose from a pool of qualified applicants while the schools with problem kids pay more and have to accept any warm body willing to do it.

So yeah, people with more money probably overall have better behaved children. Plus all the little things that make wealthier schools more attractive to good teachers (good administrators, good infrastructure, etc.)

[Mattie]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

Quick correction -- they are coming from S. Fulton not the City of Atlanta. No interdistrict transfers here.

I stand corrected. You are right lastminutemom, as usual.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I don't think it has as much to do with wealth as it does the values of parents and how they raise their kids.

Yep. As Mattie said, a lot of it has to with parental expectations. It's not so much whether your mom and dad are wealthy, but whether they make it clear to you that education has value and that you are expected to work hard.

And while we certainly can't put the burden on teachers, there are some teachers who are truly transformative. I had a couple like that and they made a huge difference in my life which I will never forget.