Downtown Study Group results (Atlanta, Buckhead: construction, price, suburbs)

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by glovenyc

Not really sure how this thread veered off on this topic, but...

The NY that I grew up in the 70s and 80s was very segregated. The couple of neighborhoods next to mine Howard Beach and Ozone Park were heavily Italian and heavily mobbed up. They had no qualms about letting you know that they did not like black and latino people, actually in 1986 a black man was chased on to the Belt Pkwy were he was killed. As kids we were chased out of those type of neighborhoods as well by grown men. So the racism in NY was in some cases was extremely overt as well. The big difference I find between the North and the South is that, up North that there is more interaction and that's understood. One maybe a racist, but his reality is that he has to interact with other races on a daily basis whether he likes it or not. I find in the South, there are certain folks who try to avoid interaction with black and latino people like the plague, and not necessarily due to hatred but that's just what they have been raised. I've met some white folks down here who are well educated, fairly affluent and genuinely nice decent people, however they are not too worldy which affects there perspective of people outside of their race and nationality.

I agree with you on the bold.

That is the main reason why I think Atlanta in general is very segregated. I have worked in many places here where there literally were no white employees. You can live in certain neighborhoods and shop in stores and not see a white person at all. I came from a pretty integrated place and grew up around all sorts of people so this was a change for me, not bad though, just a change.

But my dad said he had similar experiences being chased out of white neighborhoods (Irish and Polish primarily) when he was a kid. My husband said it happened more than once to him in Chicago.

So I think racist up north are not sneaky at all and in many ways, I see "southern hospitality" as some sort of code word for faking it, at least here in Atlanta where people will act all nice and sweet but then call you crazy names behind your back. I worked for a major bank here as a supervisor for a few years and had plenty of callers call me a "n" b*tch or refer to black employees at branches (not knowing I was black) as being dumb N-words - this one happened quite often and then they would go on and on with their stereotypes of black people and saying derogatory things.

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by residinghere2007

I agree with you on the bold.

That is the main reason why I think Atlanta in general is very segregated. I have worked in many places here where there literally were no white employees. You can live in certain neighborhoods and shop in stores and not see a white person at all. I came from a pretty integrated place and grew up around all sorts of people so this was a change for me, not bad though, just a change.

But my dad said he had similar experiences being chased out of white neighborhoods (Irish and Polish primarily) when he was a kid. My husband said it happened more than once to him in Chicago.

So I think racist up north are not sneaky at all and in many ways, I see "southern hospitality" as some sort of code word for faking it, at least here in Atlanta where people will act all nice and sweet but then call you crazy names behind your back. I worked for a major bank here as a supervisor for a few years and had plenty of callers call me a "n" b*tch or refer to black employees at branches (not knowing I was black) as being dumb N-words - this one happened quite often and then they would go on and on with their stereotypes of black people and saying derogatory things.

Well everybody has thier perspective but there is factual evidence that shows Atlanta is actually one of the mnost intergrated cities in the U.S.Chicago and Milwaukee are the worst when it comes to intergration.

I think the difference is that their is not as much diversity like you have in traditional older cities where different ethnicities and races have created their own enclaves such as Little Italy,Chinatown,Jamaican and Haitian neighborhhoods.Atlanta just does not have that kind of history with ethnic groups coming from around the world.

Atlanta is ddifferent because there are SOO many blacks.We live everywhere as well as in our own neighborhooods.Atlanta, if you are black and wealthy,you have a choice.Live in one with other blacks in the same class or live in one that is more everybody.Of course ,like everywhere ,poor black neighborhoods come a dime a dozen,but Atlanta and D.C have them in abundance.

Even in the clubs here I see black girls/guys and white girls/guys hanging out together in the clubs.

I have never gone into a neighborhood in Atlanta where I have felt as uncomfortable when I live in Milwaukee,Staten Island,or even Philly.

Just a month or so ,there was a Arabic professor at Columnbia University in NYC that got beat up by a mob because ONE person yelled out "Get Osama".Not one person but MOB of people.
How long has it been since Bin Laden was killed?
Sikh professor beaten in possible hate crime in New York - CNN.com

Don't get me started on Staten Island!
Do you know the Kensignton area of Philly is mostly white and you will face more outward racism than anywhere in Atlanta.

Im not trying to change your mind.It is what it is for each of us but I just dont see it.I grew up in mostly white neighborhoods all my life.Mainly due to the money of my dad's profession.

Even before we moved up from South Georgia,I never really experienced any racism until I first moved up North.
Downtown is indeed the least intergraed of the city but as more people have been moving back into the city,even in the hood I have seen more whites moving in.
Im not suggesting that Atlanta is a place of superior racial harmony but its better than many other places.

[AnsleyPark]

I seem to feel that Atlanta is stratified to a significant degree along economics / wealth than along purely racial lines. I believe that, IN PART, it can appear simply black v. white, when, in fact, it's an economic class separation. I think this applies within ethnicities as well - segregation along economics within a single race.

I am certainly by no means discounting racial segregation among races just because of race. God knows we continue to have that all over the place. But, I think that sometimes that's too simple of an observation.

Regardless, they are both wrong.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

I seem to feel that Atlanta is stratified to a significant degree along economics / wealth than along purely racial lines. I believe that, IN PART, it can appear simply black v. white, when, in fact, it's an economic class separation. I think this applies within ethnicities as well - segregation along economics within a single race.

Well said, Ansley. In today's world you can live wherever you'd like, assuming it's within your budget.

In addition, there's a element of segregation by choice in areas such as southwest Atlanta or south DeKalb. Living in a predominantly white neighborhood is not necessarily the holy grail for all minorities.

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

I seem to feel that Atlanta is stratified to a significant degree along economics / wealth than along purely racial lines. I believe that, IN PART, it can appear simply black v. white, when, in fact, it's an economic class separation. I think this applies within ethnicities as well - segregation along economics within a single race.

I am certainly by no means discounting racial segregation among races just because of race. God knows we continue to have that all over the place. But, I think that sometimes that's too simple of an observation.

Regardless, they are both wrong.

Yes I agree completely.Its a class thing.

[gerrythesnake]

Check the segregation map of US cities. Actually in general the south and west coast are less segregated than the Midwest and the Northeast. NYC and Chicago being the most segregated

[UrbanConquistador]

Sooo....about Downtown?

I found this post to be interesting:

Atlanta: where is our streetcar-spurred housing?

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by Rocco Barbosa

Snore? Come on now.

Things take time. It took years for it to go down and it'll take years to rebuild it.

Actually, its rise and fall were both pretty fast. Underground was hot during the early 70s but declined significantly by the mid 70s and closed by the 80s. They've been trying to revive it for almost 40 years.

In the mean time go volunteer and make things better.

Volunteer and do what? I'm not aware of any volunteerism for Underground. I guess the only big attraction is the Peach Drop which, like the lighting of the Macy's (Rich's) tree, is a real bore.

It's at the edge of South Atlanta so maybe that works against it. It was a huge hit when it opened but went into decline around the time Maynard Jackson was elected as Atlanta's first black mayor. But that might have been an unfortunate coincidence in timing. I don't know of any polices he made that worked against Underground, but it might have dampened the mood among whites. Something similar happened that killed off Cleveland's The Flats but I don't know a lot about its backstory.

Very few of your posts are positive. They all almost have a slight negative tone, almost always. It's like you're living your life in spite and bitterness.

You're like the rain on peoples picnic. You never have anything but "downers" to add. People like you almost never realize how negative you are.

Typical response is: "Oh, I'm just being real"

Yup, real pessimistic.

We are just relating its history and the facts. If south downtown gets remade, Underground could get caught up in it. But I can certainly envision a successful state-run Centennial Park alongside a anemic city-run Underground. There's a big difference between Woodruff Park and Centennial Park for instance. And in any city you can walk a block away from a bustling active place to find the area pretty much dead. Maybe in another 20 years downtown will be redeveloped and Underground will come back...or maybe not. History is not on its side, but like they say "Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results".

As I said before, I'd turn Underground over to GSU and let them develop it like GT redeveloped the now Tech Square. It would be more ambitious but I'm sure GT would be useful as an advisor.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Actually, its rise and fall were both pretty fast. Underground was hot during the early 70s but declined significantly by the mid 70s and closed by the 80s. They've been trying to revive it for almost 40 years.

It's the same with downtown generally. If you read the newspapers and civic reports from the 1950s, folks were already clamoring about the need to rejuvenate downtown and do something about the traffic that was choking Atlanta.

It's very difficult to buck megatrends.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It's the same with downtown generally. If you read the newspapers and civic reports from the 1950s, folks were already clamoring about the need to rejuvenate downtown and do something about the traffic that was choking Atlanta.

It's very difficult to buck megatrends.

But that doesn't explain Underground's initial big success. Atlanta wanted and got its own "Bourbon Street". But it all went ***poof*** just as fast and has resisted revival since.