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before i moved from metro atlanta back in august 2012(wish i didn't move to where I'm at now) i was driving 120 from lawrenceville to marietta everyday cause it saved time and traffic compared to 285. but 120 does need widening they did a little bit in gwinnett and a little bit in rowel by the county lines of cobb and fulton but i loved that route and scenery it wasn't much to see to the average person but i loved it
Its been months since I've driven that road; is there any indication that they're going to replace the 1947-built 2-lane bridge over the Chattahoochee?
Considering Gwinnett County has cleared the right-of-way all the way to the Chattahoochee River, chances are the bridge is going to be replaced. Forsyth County doesn't have to do much to get their segment ready, since it's not only much shorter, but also pretty wide as it is. (The center turning lane is very wide.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDeadParrot
As for I-85, I'd be happy if they'd pave asphalt over the busted concrete in Banks County.
They probably will in the interim, but that highway desperately needs to be six-laned. Every small undulation in the highway slows the 18-wheelers down, so if you're caught in the left lane behind one that's trying to pass another, it gets annoying very quickly. Also, I drove down I-85 from Jefferson to Buford the weekend before Christmas, and the highway was overloaded. It's unacceptable to have to come to a complete stop on a rural Interstate if there's no major accident, regardless of the time of the year.
At least I-85 in Georgia isn't as ridiculous as I-85 in South Carolina, which seems to change its speed limit and the number of lanes every 20 miles.
The 400/I-285 interchange and the I-20 west/I-285 south interchange probably need to happen more than just about any others around metro Atlanta. Both are the main causes of huge traffic backups on I-285 and specifically the I-20 west one really wouldn't be all that hard, all they need to do is add an exit only lane on the right for it that stays a lane on I-20.
On the top of my to build list is unquestionably the Northern Arc, as we have seen the traffic on Interstate 75, 85, and 285 is horrendous. When you factor in truck traffic and travelers who are passing through the area, it is no wonder they are so clogged. Opponents have argued the road would increase sprawl which is happening without the road anyways.
I totally agree that the Northern Arc and Outer Perimeter bypass concepts would be a really good way to take some very-heavy freight truck traffic off the I-285 Perimeter and other Atlanta interstates, particularly since other major metro areas (both automobile-oriented and transit-heavy) have built outer bypass expressways as a way of attempting to divert heavy through traffic away from the constricted expressways of their urban cores, and to provide better cross-regional connectivity through their outer suburban areas.
Automobile-dominated Houston has 3 Outer Perimeter-type bypasses (2 toll roads and 1 surface/at-grade artery) to take traffic off of its severely-congested original I-610 bypass and provide cross-regional connectivity through its outer suburbs.
Automobile-dominated Dallas has what could be considered to be the equivalent to 2 Northern Arc-type tolled expressways through its heavily-developed and heavily-populated northern suburbs to take some traffic off of the severely-congested North Leg of I-635 and to provide east-west cross-regional connectivity through Dallas' dominant northern suburbs.
(...Though it should be noted that the Dallas region and the State of Texas intentionally preserved and kept the right-of-ways of its two northside outer-suburban roads free of development in years' past so as to minimize any community opposition to the construction of the roads...it should also be noted that the right-of-way that was preserved for the future construction of the two toll roads almost totally consisted of sparsely-wooded and mostly-flat prairie and ranchland, unlike the right-of-way of North Georgia's erstwhile proposed Northern Arc expressway whose path was proposed to run directly through many heavily-wooded hilly areas north of Atlanta.)
Automobile-dominated Miami has a tolled second bypass to take traffic off of its heavily-congested original FL 826 bypass.
After opposing forces caused many years of delay, transit-heavy Washington, D.C. recently built a tolled Northern Arc-type second bypass through its Maryland suburbs to take traffic off of the severely-congested I-495 Capital Beltway and provide missing east-west cross-regional connectivity through D.C.'s northern suburbs.
Transit-heavy Chicago has a tolled second bypass to attempt to take some traffic off of the I-294 Tri-State Tollway bypass and to provide north-south cross-regional connectivity through its western suburbs.
Transit-heavy Boston has a second bypass (I-495) to divert through traffic away from its famed severely-congested original Route 128 bypass as well as to divert through traffic away from I-93 through Central Boston.
Transit-heavy Toronto recently built a tolled second bypass (Highway 407) through its far-northern suburbs as an attempt to divert through traffic away from severely-congested Highway 401, which has some sections with as many as 18 lanes and is the busiest highway in North America with the roadway carrying over 420,000 vehicles each day.
It's just that the problem with proposing to build the Northern Arc expressway north of Atlanta is that the Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter second bypass concept became extremely politically radioactive in Georgia politics after former governor Roy Barnes and Georgia Democrats' backing of the road played a starring role in Barnes' 2002 loss to Republican Sonny Perdue and the GOP takeover of Georgia state politics in 2004.
Another problem with proposing to build the Northern Arc expressway is that two of the counties that the highway was proposed to run through (Forsyth and Cherokee) obstructed and ultimately prevented the construction of the road by intentionally permitting the construction of heavy amounts of high-end residential development directly in the path of the proposed road so as to make any future attempts at constructing the unpopular road even more difficult than it already was going to be.
A third county that the Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter was proposed to run through (Bartow County) obstructed the construction of the unpopular road with the help of the powerful Rollins family (of pest control fame) who just won a 30-year court battle against the Georgia Department of Transportation to prevent the construction of the 411-75 Connector (which was also supposed to be part of the Northern Arc) through the politically-sensitive Dobbins Mountain site.
After losing the court battle last year, Georgia Governor Nathan Deal said that the state should and would back-off from attempting to build such an unpopular and politically-contentious road that the locals don't want, mainly because the State of Georgia has spent much more money in court fees than it would have originally cost to build the road.
The Georgia Department of Transportation did attempt to resurrect the Northern Arc bypass in 2007 on a route proposed to run further to the north away from Atlanta, north of Lake Lanier and into the southernmost ranges of the Blue Ridge and Appalachian Mountains.
It's just that that farther north proposed route drew even more intense opposition than the original route through Atlanta's quickly-developing Northern outer suburbs because of the powerful environmental lobby's extreme protectionism over the heavily-wooded high hills and low mountains along the more revised northern proposed path of the unpopular road.
After watching the implosion of an entire long-ruling political party (the once ultra-dominant Georgia Democrats) be caused largely by their support of the very-unpopular Northern Arc, and after campaigning heavily against the road during the 2002 Governor's race in which Republican Sonny Perdue defeated the incumbent Democrat Roy Barnes, the currently ultra-dominant Georgia Republicans don't want any parts of the Northern Arc proposal.
Meanwhile, the out-of-power super-minority Georgia Democrats, who are hoping to become competitive again and maybe even eventually get back into power on the strength of the state's fast-changing demographics, don't want any part of the Northern Arc proposal, particularly after their backing of the proposal helped the Georgia Democrats lose control over the state's political climate and fall into total political oblivion.
The Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter concept is something that is needed to take heavy through traffic off of the I-285 Perimeter and Atlanta's interstates, but because it is a concept that seems to be extremely-unpopular with the voting public (who votes down anyone or anything affiliated with the unpopular road construction proposal), the Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter concept is something that will likely never again see the light-of-day as a serious political or logistical proposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpatt.marine1
Second, I would push to finish transforming the GA 316 into a fully limited access road.
This is a good concept and much-needed project that, like I stated in an earlier post, should be a multimodal transportation expansion project that is paired-up with the long-proposed Atlanta-Athens "Brain Train" high-capacity passenger rail line to provide higher-speed local and regional passenger rail transit service between the world-leading Atlanta Airport and the state's flagship institution at the University of Georgia in Athens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpatt.marine1
Third, I would create a GA 316 type limited access road to connect Huntsville and Atlanta via Rome.
This is an excellent idea that, although the Rome-Huntsville portion of the project would most-likely be a very-heavy lift because of hard-core opposition from environmentalists and because of the coordination that would be needed between the state governments of Georgia and Alabama, should at-least exist in the form of an upgraded US 411/GA 20 and US 41 between I-75 south of Cartersville and Rome from an at-grade route to a grade-separated limited-access expressway.
I would also pair the Cartersville-Rome limited-access expressway conversion project with the implementation of high-capacity regional passenger rail transit service between Cartersville and the Atlanta Airport by way of new passenger train-only tracks along the historic Western & Atlantic freight rail right-of-way, and the implementation of high-capacity regional passenger rail transit service between the Atlanta Airport and Rome by way of new passenger train-only tracks along the Norfolk Southern right-of-way west of Atlanta (to relieve some of the exceptionally-heavy traffic congestion off of I-75 northwest of Atlanta and make it easier to drive between Atlanta and Cartersville by way of I-75 and the upgraded US 41/US 411/GA 20 route between Cartersville and Rome).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpatt.marine1
Fourth, I would stress connecting the 2nd tier cities of Georgia to help pull some traffic away from Atlanta.
This is an excellent idea which the State of Georgia has already enacted with the nearly-complete Fall Line Freeway through Middle Georgia connecting Columbus, Macon and Augusta which the State of Georgia has been quietly constructing so as to not incite the wrath of congestion-plagued Metro Atlantans who may not be too happy to know that a major road construction project is being completed in a more sparsely-populated part of the state while Metro Atlanta still struggles with some of the Western Hemisphere's worst traffic congestion and an increasingly notorious continued dearth of multimodal transportation options. Silence greets last contract for a developmental highway
I totally agree that the Northern Arc and Outer Perimeter bypass concepts would be a really good way to take some very-heavy freight truck traffic off the I-285 Perimeter and other Atlanta interstates, particularly since other major metro areas (both automobile-oriented and transit-heavy) have built outer bypass expressways as a way of attempting to divert heavy through traffic away from the constricted expressways of their urban cores, and to provide better cross-regional connectivity through their outer suburban areas.
Automobile-dominated Houston has 3 Outer Perimeter-type bypasses (2 toll roads and 1 surface/at-grade artery) to take traffic off of its severely-congested original I-610 bypass and provide cross-regional connectivity through its outer suburbs.
Automobile-dominated Dallas has what could be considered to be the equivalent to 2 Northern Arc-type tolled expressways through its heavily-developed and heavily-populated northern suburbs to take some traffic off of the severely-congested North Leg of I-635 and to provide east-west cross-regional connectivity through Dallas' dominant northern suburbs.
(...Though it should be noted that the Dallas region and the State of Texas intentionally preserved and kept the right-of-ways of its two northside outer-suburban roads free of development in years' past so as to minimize any community opposition to the construction of the roads...it should also be noted that the right-of-way that was preserved for the future construction of the two toll roads almost totally consisted of sparsely-wooded and mostly-flat prairie and ranchland, unlike the right-of-way of North Georgia's erstwhile proposed Northern Arc expressway whose path was proposed to run directly through many heavily-wooded hilly areas north of Atlanta.)
Automobile-dominated Miami has a tolled second bypass to take traffic off of its heavily-congested original FL 826 bypass.
After opposing forces caused many years of delay, transit-heavy Washington, D.C. recently built a tolled Northern Arc-type second bypass through its Maryland suburbs to take traffic off of the severely-congested I-495 Capital Beltway and provide missing east-west cross-regional connectivity through D.C.'s northern suburbs.
Transit-heavy Chicago has a tolled second bypass to attempt to take some traffic off of the I-294 Tri-State Tollway bypass and to provide north-south cross-regional connectivity through its western suburbs.
Transit-heavy Boston has a second bypass (I-495) to divert through traffic away from its famed severely-congested original Route 128 bypass as well as to divert through traffic away from I-93 through Central Boston.
Transit-heavy Toronto recently built a tolled second bypass (Highway 407) through its far-northern suburbs as an attempt to divert through traffic away from severely-congested Highway 401, which has some sections with as many as 18 lanes and is the busiest highway in North America with the roadway carrying over 420,000 vehicles each day.
It's just that the problem with proposing to build the Northern Arc expressway north of Atlanta is that the Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter second bypass concept became extremely politically radioactive in Georgia politics after former governor Roy Barnes and Georgia Democrats' backing of the road played a starring role in Barnes' 2002 loss to Republican Sonny Perdue and the GOP takeover of Georgia state politics in 2004.
Another problem with proposing to build the Northern Arc expressway is that two of the counties that the highway was proposed to run through (Forsyth and Cherokee) obstructed and ultimately prevented the construction of the road by intentionally permitting the construction of heavy amounts of high-end residential development directly in the path of the proposed road so as to make any future attempts at constructing the unpopular road even more difficult than it already was going to be.
A third county that the Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter was proposed to run through (Bartow County) obstructed the construction of the unpopular road with the help of the powerful Rollins family (of pest control fame) who just won a 30-year court battle against the Georgia Department of Transportation to prevent the construction of the 411-75 Connector (which was also supposed to be part of the Northern Arc) through the politically-sensitive Dobbins Mountain site.
After losing the court battle last year, Georgia Governor Nathan Deal said that the state should and would back-off from attempting to build such an unpopular and politically-contentious road that the locals don't want, mainly because the State of Georgia has spent much more money in court fees than it would have originally cost to build the road.
The Georgia Department of Transportation did attempt to resurrect the Northern Arc bypass in 2007 on a route proposed to run further to the north away from Atlanta, north of Lake Lanier and into the southernmost ranges of the Blue Ridge and Appalachian Mountains.
It's just that that farther north proposed route drew even more intense opposition than the original route through Atlanta's quickly-developing Northern outer suburbs because of the powerful environmental lobby's extreme protectionism over the heavily-wooded high hills and low mountains along the more revised northern proposed path of the unpopular road.
After watching the implosion of an entire long-ruling political party (the once ultra-dominant Georgia Democrats) be caused largely by their support of the very-unpopular Northern Arc, and after campaigning heavily against the road during the 2002 Governor's race in which Republican Sonny Perdue defeated the incumbent Democrat Roy Barnes, the currently ultra-dominant Georgia Republicans don't want any parts of the Northern Arc proposal.
Meanwhile, the out-of-power super-minority Georgia Democrats, who are hoping to become competitive again and maybe even eventually get back into power on the strength of the state's fast-changing demographics, don't want any part of the Northern Arc proposal, particularly after their backing of the proposal helped the Georgia Democrats lose control over the state's political climate and fall into total political oblivion.
The Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter concept is something that is needed to take heavy through traffic off of the I-285 Perimeter and Atlanta's interstates, but because it is a concept that seems to be extremely-unpopular with the voting public (who votes down anyone or anything affiliated with the unpopular road construction proposal), the Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter concept is something that will likely never again see the light-of-day as a serious political or logistical proposal.
This is a good concept and much-needed project that, like I stated in an earlier post, should be a multimodal transportation expansion project that is paired-up with the long-proposed Atlanta-Athens "Brain Train" high-capacity passenger rail line to provide higher-speed local and regional passenger rail transit service between the world-leading Atlanta Airport and the state's flagship institution at the University of Georgia in Athens.
This is an excellent idea that, although the Rome-Huntsville portion of the project would most-likely be a very-heavy lift because of hard-core opposition from environmentalists and because of the coordination that would be needed between the state governments of Georgia and Alabama, should at-least exist in the form of an upgraded US 411/GA 20 and US 41 between I-75 south of Cartersville and Rome from an at-grade route to a grade-separated limited-access expressway.
I would also pair the Cartersville-Rome limited-access expressway conversion project with the implementation of high-capacity regional passenger rail transit service between Cartersville and the Atlanta Airport by way of new passenger train-only tracks along the historic Western & Atlantic freight rail right-of-way, and the implementation of high-capacity regional passenger rail transit service between the Atlanta Airport and Rome by way of new passenger train-only tracks along the Norfolk Southern right-of-way west of Atlanta (to relieve some of the exceptionally-heavy traffic congestion off of I-75 northwest of Atlanta and make it easier to drive between Atlanta and Cartersville by way of I-75 and the upgraded US 41/US 411/GA 20 route between Cartersville and Rome).
This is an excellent idea which the State of Georgia has already enacted with the nearly-complete Fall Line Freeway through Middle Georgia connecting Columbus, Macon and Augusta which the State of Georgia has been quietly constructing so as to not incite the wrath of congestion-plagued Metro Atlantans who may not be too happy to know that a major road construction project is being completed in a more sparsely-populated part of the state while Metro Atlanta still struggles with some of the Western Hemisphere's worst traffic congestion and an increasingly notorious continued dearth of multimodal transportation options. Silence greets last contract for a developmental highway
Its very simple, if you have a automobile dominate large metropolitan area you construct a large freeway system to support it, i.e. Dallas, L.A., Houston, etc, if you have a transit dominate metro area you don't need as many freeways or freeway lanes for support, i.e. New York City, Washington D.C., Chicago, etc. Atlanta wants the best of both worlds in being an automobile dominate metro area with transit dominate freeway infrastructure, which doesn't mix. Either you build to fit your preference for automobiles and build move freeways or you build to keep current levels of freeway and build for transit. In Atlanta's case, the best of both worlds wouldn't be a bad idea with the addition of the Northern Arc and GA 316, and expanding MARTA.
Atlanta wants the best of both worlds in being an automobile dominate metro area with transit dominate freeway infrastructure, which doesn't mix. Either you build to fit your preference for automobiles and build move freeways or you build to keep current levels of freeway and build for transit. In Atlanta's case, the best of both worlds wouldn't be a bad idea with the addition of the Northern Arc and GA 316, and expanding MARTA.
If money was no object I'd say build a bunch of streetcars and bike paths for the intown young folks, and then do some major road building for the rest of us.
I like the proposal to extend I-81 from its southern terminus in Knoxville all the way to Panama City Beach. It would align with 75 from Knoxville to Chattanooga but then follow the path of the old West Georgia Tollway that was on the drawing boards back in the 70s. The only portion of that highway in existence today is I-185. The Florida Panhandle Beaches could use interstate access going north bound, and through traffic from points north to Florida would have an alternate to I-75.
I would extend dpatt's freeway from Huntsville to Rome and then tie it in with 411, then let it take the place of the northern Arc. At this point it might need to stay further from Atlanta burbs than the original arc, go north of Canton and Gainesville and then arc over to Athens. From there I would see it following the path of the proposed I-3 and go from Athens to Augusta and then to Savannah.
If the Fall line Freeway were upgraded to limited access or the I-14 proposal was completed or the recently proposed four laning of GA 109 and 74 from LaGrange to Macon were completed, then you would have an east-west connection south of metro Atlanta.
The three of these would, in essence provided through traffic access in almost every direction that would avoid Atlanta. Atlanta definitely needed a couple of outer perimeters. One should have been the "Mall" perimeter... connect Arbor Place in Douglasville to Town Center in Kennesaw to Northpointe in Alpharetta to Gwinnett Place in Duluth, then Lawrenceville and Snellville to StoneCrest in Lithonia to Southlake in Morrow to Shannon in Union City back to Arbor Place in Douglasville. Too late now, too much development in the path, too many NIMBYers to stop it. This should have gone on the drawing board about the time that 285 was completed in the late 60s.
Another note about the nearly-complete Fall Line Freeway is that the State of Georgia has been keeping the construction of the Middle Georgia developmental roadway under wraps and out of the spotlight of the Atlanta media.
The State of Georgia has been so quiet about the construction progress of the Fall Line Freeway that most Metro Atlantans don't even seem to be aware that most of the roadway has actually been built and that the project is nearly complete.
Most Metro Atlantans seem to think that the Fall Line Freeway is still in the conceptual stages if they are even aware of the road's existence, something which is by design so that the roadway would receive as little opposition as possible from in Metro Atlanta where the congestion and overdevelopment-weary public has grown increasingly-averse (and even downright hostile at times) to the concept of developmental road construction, both in the outlying suburban and exurban areas of Metro Atlanta and in the rural parts of the state outside of Metro Atlanta.
I wonder if you separate the thru and local traffic on I-285 and the connector could that help? What I mean by separate is make the inside lanes thru and the outside lanes local since almost all the exits are right exits. If you separate the lanes with a barrier you can keep the traffic from mixing. From my experiences in Atlanta, D.C. and other large metro areas I find most traffic is caused either by folks exiting at the last minute from the far lanes, truck traffic and slow drivers.
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