New Atlanta airport master plan eyes new gates, sixth runway (construction, gated)

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by rorqual

Interesting question: Hartsfield manages to be the "worlds busiest" because Atlanta refuses to construct a new airport. I would guess that Chicago and Dallas handle more flights than Atlanta (those two cities also support two airports).

The problem with this is Hartsfield by itself already has more passengers than all the commercial passenger airports in both of those cities.

This includes O'hare, Midway, Gary, and Rockford for Chicago and it includes DFW and Love field for Dallas.

Its busier because it is well located and built to be extremely efficient for connections.

As a metro-wide system only London, NYC, and Tokyo currently outrank Atlanta in terms of total passengers.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by testa50

In Minneapolis Delta/Skyteam has a special strategy of removing ALL non-Skyteam airlines from the main airport complex and relocating them to a smaller facility south of the airport. Similar strategy was long discussed here as well.

For the current plan, it seems like jamming all non-ST airlines into F, G, and H could be workable. The other airlines would have an excellent O/D setup with gates extremely close to curb. Delta would have the entire existing north/south concourse for its own use. Win/win. This is what I'm really hoping happens, rather than keeping all the other airlines split up between T/C/D/E/F and then putting random stuff in the new G and H. I do wonder if the 30-odd gates in G and H are enough for all of this, however.

I agree.

I don't think it is enough gates to support the costs of a third terminal in this arrangement and I'm also concerned about the proposed east gates. The international terminal is not built to handle the heavy traffic of non sky team domestic traffic. I also think those airlines would have an issue with poor access to ground transportation, especially American having a really nice piece of real estate in the T-Gates.

Yet those gates are also pretty far from the main terminal.

My curiosity is two-fold: 1) could they extend the non-secure side of the international terminal to hold add domestic terminal space for non-hub O&D airlines 2) Could they be planning with consideration of a set up for a potential much more distant future extensions of all of these gates and a full eastern terminal (longer range than the 2030 master plan...)


This plan tells me that Delta won and is getting their way. They didn't want the South Terminal complex to prevent further competition from non-hub/O&D airlines in Atlanta. They can also compete for and make better use of the east gates for hub expansions.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by magnetar

"Refuses to construct", he said, as though it were somehow preferable to not have a single airport from which you can fly to nearly any North American city and many international ones. As if Atlanta would be somehow better off if for some flights you had to drive out to the middle of nowhere instead of taking the train to ATL, or travelers would be happier if they had to transfer from one airport to another for connecting international flights.

A lot of people on the North side of the metro would rather not have to drive all the way through Atlanta to get to an airport.

Basically all flight would be available at Hartsfield. You seem to be buying the Delta propaganda. I don't see Southwest moving all their flights to another airport. The main airport has access to pretty much everywhere in all the US cities with multiple airports.

The only one harmed by a 2nd airport is Delta.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

I agree.

I don't think it is enough gates to support the costs of a third terminal in this arrangement and I'm also concerned about the proposed east gates. The international terminal is not built to handle the heavy traffic of non sky team domestic traffic. I also think those airlines would have an issue with poor access to ground transportation, especially American having a really nice piece of real estate in the T-Gates.

Yet those gates are also pretty far from the main terminal.

My curiosity is two-fold: 1) could they extend the non-secure side of the international terminal to hold add domestic terminal space for non-hub O&D airlines 2) Could they be planning with consideration of a set up for a potential much more distant future extensions of all of these gates and a full eastern terminal (longer range than the 2030 master plan...)


This plan tells me that Delta won and is getting their way. They didn't want the South Terminal complex to prevent further competition from non-hub/O&D airlines in Atlanta. They can also compete for and make better use of the east gates for hub expansions.

The plan says the international terminal will start getting domestic flights and be mixed. Houston's international terminal started out all international and then started getting Continental's overflow domestic traffic.

[emcee squared]

Originally Posted by bu2

The plan says the international terminal will start getting domestic flights and be mixed. Houston's international terminal started out all international and then started getting Continental's overflow domestic traffic.

Both the E Concourse and F Terminal receive their fair-share of domestic flights already. It shouldn't really be too much of a change, except it upsets the people who bid for that work area specifically for international flights. Muddling the area up with domestic turnarounds and RJs throws a wrench in efficiency.

[Robbyb03]

Originally Posted by glovenyc

New York metro has 4 airports, L.A. has at least 3 airports, London has at least 2 airports...and why are you laughing?

The Atlanta airport is the most efficient, cost effective airport in the entire world. The airport can accommodate a lot more aircraft. Hell, the airport's operations are down 10-15% (200-300 flights a day) from its height. Adding an additional runway at this time would only help if more terminals are added south of the airport's main terminals now and that runway would only help with departure times. By the way, building a secondary airport for Atlanta is absolutely idiotic.

[Robbyb03]

Originally Posted by bu2

Basically virtually every major city in the US has at least a 2nd airport except for Philadelphia-and they are very close to NYC and Baltimore/DC.

Do you realize how inefficient those airports are compared to Atlanta?

[jsvh]

Competition is a good thing and I think a second airport could provide that. However, given the hub-and-spoke nature of Atlanta and second airport will hurt the city a lot. A lot of businesses cite the airport as a key factor, and if you are now splitting O/D traffic between multiple airports you lose the competitiveness as a hub since you need O/D traffic to survive. We should make sure other airlines feel welcome at ATL since a second airport would hurt Atlanta Metro's appeal as a whole since it would cause a loss of direct flights.

[flyonpa]

The Only O/D traffic that would get "Split" out would be Non-Delta & SW . A 2nd airport would divide the O/D traffic from other airlines.

United, AA/USAir Would more then likely do a split, with operation to both Airports, Instead of 6 Flights a day from ATL to there Hub, they might do 4/4 in smaller planes from both airports.

Smaller Airlines like:
Frontier, JetBlue, Alaska, Virgin, Allegiant, Spirit would pick one airport or the other. Since they are only O/D flight the they need to look at the passenger load and where they want to go.

JetBlue with its flight to the NorthEast & West Coast could do well with a airport on the northside, Being the "Only" airline going from 2nd Airport to those cities may allow them to have higher prices, since they are not directly competing with DL/SW out of ATL.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

I also think those airlines would have an issue with poor access to ground transportation, especially American having a really nice piece of real estate in the T-Gates.

American may not be in Concourse T for much longer, as United already has a set in stone plan to consolidate all operations in Concourse T, with construction of new gates already ongoing. American won't be able to fit all of its flights + US Airways flights into the gate space that it will have after the new gates for United are built, so the only options American will have are to either continue the split operation or to consolidate into Concourse D.

And clearly, Delta absolutely will not give up any gates in Concourse T, since they can fit widebody aircraft and are frequently used on premium transcontinental routes for the convenience of its O&D passengers.