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Yes, people don't add up all the costs of car ownership. They only think of gas. I ended up saving hundreds every month by getting rid of my car. It is not chump change.
Your car is costing you about $0.60 a mile to drive (and that is not paying for roads).
For me the biggest issues are time, convenience, flexibility and the ability to haul things around.
Yesterday afternoon I went to the hardware store but they didn't have what I needed so I went to Home Depot. I picked up some zinnias and potting soil while I was there. I had to drop off a lamp for repairs on Miami circle and return some dishes to a friend who recently brought us some food. I went by the vet, the bank, the post office, the grocery store and had lunch at a barbecue joint. Traffic wasn't bad at all and all of this only took about three hours. It would have been a colossal undertaking to do this by mass transit.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible to live without using a car. You certainly can and I have done so myself. But it takes a whole lot more time and work.
Interesting article but 5 of those "neighborhoods" IMO are just simply "downtown."
GA State, Peachtree Ctr, Sweet Auburn, South Downtown, SoNo (which I have never heard of but looked up and it said it was "coined" in 2005. Always interesting to me how people just make up new "neighborhoods.")
For me the biggest issues are time, convenience, flexibility and the ability to haul things around.
Yesterday afternoon I went to the hardware store but they didn't have what I needed so I went to Home Depot. I picked up some zinnias and potting soil while I was there. I had to drop off a lamp for repairs on Miami circle and return some dishes to a friend who recently brought us some food. I went by the vet, the bank, the post office, the grocery store and had lunch at a barbecue joint. Traffic wasn't bad at all and all of this only took about three hours. It would have been a colossal undertaking to do this by mass transit.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible to live without using a car. You certainly can and I have done so myself. But it takes a whole lot more time and work.
That is why some of us suggest Zipcar for activities like these.
For me the biggest issues are time, convenience, flexibility and the ability to haul things around.
Yesterday afternoon I went to the hardware store but they didn't have what I needed so I went to Home Depot. I picked up some zinnias and potting soil while I was there. I had to drop off a lamp for repairs on Miami circle and return some dishes to a friend who recently brought us some food. I went by the vet, the bank, the post office, the grocery store and had lunch at a barbecue joint. Traffic wasn't bad at all and all of this only took about three hours. It would have been a colossal undertaking to do this by mass transit.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible to live without using a car. You certainly can and I have done so myself. But it takes a whole lot more time and work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt
That is why some of us suggest Zipcar for activities like these.
Yes. Good points both of you.
Things like ZipCar and Uber are what make not owning a car so easy and affordable. The times you do need to go somewhere that you cannot easily get via walking, biking, or transit, you can use ZipCar or Uber.
I stated that knowing what I know now I wouldn't live in Atlanta without a car.
But FWIW, I used to live near Lindbergh station and yes, I would still have a car living there and working in Midtown. ETA: As stated, if I didn't have a family/kids, I would take MARTA to work every day but grocery shopping on MARTA is not convenient and it is pretty hot outside in the afternoons this time of the year and all the "pop up" thunderstorms and other weather events are just things I wouldn't want to deal with on those days on the bus/train if I didn't have to. It is a preference and IMO it is just not a good idea to live in Atlanta without a car. Even though people complain about the traffic, in most instances, even when I did take transit to work in Decatur (I worked in downtown Decatur and took the train from Ashby to Decatur a few times a week) it was quicker for me to just drive because I had to walk from the station to my job. Also one never knows when they will have to be someone at a specific time. Someone mentioned Uber or zipcar but not all people live near zipcar and there is a wait for a car from Uber or a regular cab. So I stand by what I said. And FWIW, I do like MARTA and think it is a decent system. I just know better now having lived in Atlanta for a long time and not having a car there is workable but not advisable. I too knew many New Yorkers in particular who moved without cars and hurried up and got their first license and bought a car after moving to Atlanta when they realized that NYC public transit is miles above MARTA. I knew people from London and Berlin who did the same thing when they relocated to Atlanta for work.
I like your post. And I know for sure you had to actually live without a car for a while because of what you've posted. I'm reading posts on this topic and wonder how many have actually had to rely solely on public transport. I am not sure if the person who posted this thread is even considering using Uber or Zipcar but I do see people recommending them.
LovelyRedd, are you planning to use only Marta or are you open to something like Uber or zipcar?
As a further evidence that a car-free lifestyle is not only possible in Atlanta but growing increasingly common: Atlanta's new Planning Commissioner doesn't have a car.
Quote:
...Keane brings to Atlanta an appreciation for MARTA, no car, and an interest in figuring out how he can help shape Atlanta’s built environment into an inviting, interesting, contextually whole urban core of a vast metro area...
Location: Vinings/Cumberland in the evil county of Cobb
1,317 posts, read 1,641,163 times
Reputation: 1551
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
For me the biggest issues are time, convenience, flexibility and the ability to haul things around.
Yesterday afternoon I went to the hardware store but they didn't have what I needed so I went to Home Depot. I picked up some zinnias and potting soil while I was there. I had to drop off a lamp for repairs on Miami circle and return some dishes to a friend who recently brought us some food. I went by the vet, the bank, the post office, the grocery store and had lunch at a barbecue joint. Traffic wasn't bad at all and all of this only took about three hours. It would have been a colossal undertaking to do this by mass transit.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible to live without using a car. You certainly can and I have done so myself. But it takes a whole lot more time and work.
Exactly...in theory you can live in a few parts of Atlanta without a car, but sometimes life doesn't always play well with our theories.
So, since it's impossible to live without a car in the urban core of Atlanta, I guess I do not exist?
Yeah, I can't get out to Cumberland/Alpharetta/Woodstock/Kennesaw/Gwinnett/etc very easily but, in all honesty, who cares? I have no reason to be out there. Nightlife? No. Shopping? We have Atlantic Station, Lenox, Phipps, etc connected by transit, so no... Restaurants? Please...no. Docotor/Dentist? We have world class transit connected medical facilities in Midtown/Downtown and a dentist on every corner. Entertainment? No...people from those neighborhoods drive down to my neighborhood in droves looking for entertainment.
No offense to the people that live in those areas, but I do not know anyone in Midtown that is hankering to go out there on the weekends. It's typically a loathed event that we accomplish kicking and screaming the entire way.
Even if I did need to OCCASIONALLY get to one of these neighborhoods, it would still be more economical to just take Marta to the nearest station and then Uber the rest of the way there. I could even Uber all the way from my front door, and it would still be cheaper than owning a car.
This isn't even a what's possible/not possible situation. Economically, it doesn't make sense to own a car just for the purposes of transporting the occasional office chair (dude just have it delivered or order online if you can't figure out Zipcar) or the once in a blue moon trip that a millennial is going to want to (have to) take to visit the suburbs. If you feel that you must own and maintain a car simply for the off-chance that you will need to buy furniture, then you're going to be in for a rude awakening in our world of dwindling and finite resources.
Also, I do not recommend moving ANYWHERE without first securing a job. Car or no car, it's just not a wise idea.
Now, let's take a look at some walk scores. Here are some various residential buildings traveling up the core from Downtown, north to Midtown. If you cannot live in one of these areas without a car, then that is your problem.
With all the under construction residential development in the core, corporate relocations to transit connected areas, and planned retail (Grocery stores, shopping, more restaurants, etc), it's going to get harder and harder for people from Kennesaw and beyond to continue making the argument that you cannot live in Urban Atlanta without a car. Add in the city doubling its bicycle infrastructure and adding a sizable bike-share program by the end of this year to boot.
P.s. to the guy that said Midtown is no different now than it was over a decade ago... Please get your facts straight. The plaza Midtown Publix was not even there 10 years ago, Tech Square was just finishing up, Atlantic Station was still under construction, and since 2000, the residential population of Midtown has more than doubled. And I'm going to say this one more time. You lived on campus at Tech. You did not live in the urban core of Midtown. Even if you lived on East Campus, you still had to cross the connector to get to the rest of Midtown. Your walk score (even more so 10+ years ago) is nowhere close to my walk score. I would think twice about living on East Campus even now without a car. It would require a heck of a lot more planning than I would have to do now. Now, one of those newly built private Tech dorms IN Midtown core would be a different story.
So, since it's impossible to live without a car in the urban core of Atlanta, I guess I do not exist?
Yeah, I can't get out to Cumberland/Alpharetta/Woodstock/Kennesaw/Gwinnett/etc very easily but, in all honesty, who cares? I have no reason to be out there. Nightlife? No. Shopping? We have Atlantic Station, Lenox, Phipps, etc connected by transit, so no... Restaurants? Please...no. Docotor/Dentist? We have world class transit connected medical facilities in Midtown/Downtown and a dentist on every corner. Entertainment? No...people from those neighborhoods drive down to my neighborhood in droves looking for entertainment.
No offense to the people that live in those areas, but I do not know anyone in Midtown that is hankering to go out there on the weekends. It's typically a loathed event that we accomplish kicking and screaming the entire way.
Even if I did need to OCCASIONALLY get to one of these neighborhoods, it would still be more economical to just take Marta to the nearest station and then Uber the rest of the way there. I could even Uber all the way from my front door, and it would still be cheaper than owning a car.
This isn't even a what's possible/not possible situation. Economically, it doesn't make sense to own a car just for the purposes of transporting the occasional office chair (dude just have it delivered or order online if you can't figure out Zipcar) or the once in a blue moon trip that a millennial is going to want to (have to) take to visit the suburbs. If you feel that you must own and maintain a car simply for the off-chance that you will need to buy furniture, then you're going to be in for a rude awakening in our world of dwindling and finite resources.
Also, I do not recommend moving ANYWHERE without first securing a job. Car or no car, it's just not a wise idea.
Now, let's take a look at some walk scores. Here are some various residential buildings traveling up the core from Downtown, north to Midtown. If you cannot live in one of these areas without a car, then that is your problem.
With all the under construction residential development in the core, corporate relocations to transit connected areas, and planned retail (Grocery stores, shopping, more restaurants, etc), it's going to get harder and harder for people from Kennesaw and beyond to continue making the argument that you cannot live in Urban Atlanta without a car. Add in the city doubling its bicycle infrastructure and adding a sizable bike-share program by the end of this year to boot.
P.s. to the guy that said Midtown is no different now than it was over a decade ago... Please get your facts straight. The plaza Midtown Publix was not even there 10 years ago, Tech Square was just finishing up, Atlantic Station was still under construction, and since 2000, the residential population of Midtown has more than doubled. And I'm going to say this one more time. You lived on campus at Tech. You did not live in the urban core of Midtown. Even if you lived on East Campus, you still had to cross the connector to get to the rest of Midtown. Your walk score (even more so 10+ years ago) is nowhere close to my walk score. I would think twice about living on East Campus even now without a car. It would require a heck of a lot more planning than I would have to do now. Now, one of those newly built private Tech dorms IN Midtown core would be a different story.
Do you currently rely solely on MARTA?
I am asking because I see a lot of people getting defensive about this topic IMO unnecessarily. I lived for a long time without a car in Atlanta and it was very difficult. One's life very rarely fits into a small confined area of the metro, which is huge.
Also, I saw very few people who said it was "impossible" to live in Atlanta without a car. It is possible, just something that most who have had to rely solely on MARTA would not recommend, including myself.
I always llived within the perimeter when I didn't have a car. I lived near Lennox Rd and Chesire Bridge not far from Lindbergh station. The bus where I lived came every 20 minutes in the morning and every 30 minutes during low ride times. It was slower on the weekend. I ALWAYS worked rather close to my house at that time (usually Downtown, Midtown, or Buckhead). I also worked in Chamblee and in Doraville and near Clairmont Rd and Decatur and practically anywhere you can think of inside the perimeter. It ALWAYS took much longer to get where I needed to go on MARTA than it takes to drive. For instance, when I lived in that area, I remember vividly a job I hated (lol) but I went to Mon-Fri. It was on Buford Hwy, which was not far from where I lived. I had to take a bus from my apartment to Lindhberg then take the #20 bus down Buford Hwy (which at that time ran every 8-10 minutes practically all day as it was and I believe still is one of the most frequently used MARTA buses). Most of the time when I got to Lindbergh I had to wait about 10 minutes for the bus, it was a 15 minute ride from my apartment to the station, then a 10 minute wait for the bus then a nother 15 minute ride to my job, so it took 40 minutes for me to go basically 5 miles. And then I had to cross extremely busy Buford Hwy and almost get killed every day as at that time there were no sidewalks and no crosswalks to where I could easily access my job. My supervisor there was very nice and many times she would give me a ride home. She would drive me home in 5 minutes.
So for this reason and many other experiences (and we won't even get into shopping on the bus) I just don't advise people to move to Atlanta without their own car. It is very difficult relying only on MARTA. I knew and still know people who have kids who have a 2 hour commute each morning and evening in order to take kids to school/daycare and go to work where they take 6 different forms of transit every morning and night. It is exhausting. I worked with people in Cobb County after buying a car who relied solely on MARTA and CCT and their commute was 6 hours per day to go maybe 30 miles total. It is difficult and not something I would suggest to anyone. People change jobs all the time. They may move to Midtown to get close to their job but then have to take another one in Gwinnet County which has atrocious public transit (I have had to take buses up there too and it is not for the weak of heart).
There is no reason to be defensive about this especially if you have never had to rely solely on MARTA to commute.
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