Stats that show the Atlanta Streetcar was a complete and utter failure of epic proportion (Lenox: restaurant, transport)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Hopefully we'll see more money from the federal government - Mr. Trump is a fan of public transportation.

It could happen. Trump is not really a conservative but he will still have to deal with a Republican congress.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Hopefully we'll see more money from the federal government - Mr. Trump is a fan of public transportation.

Trump does the best transit, believe me. He's the best at it. No one knows more about transit than him. He has the greatest trains. The greatest tracks. With Trump as President, we will probably have nationwide rail, and complete transit systems in every major city in just the next two years. It's going to be yuuuuuuuuge!

[MikeHonchoATL]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Hopefully we'll see more money from the federal government - Mr. Trump is a fan of public transportation.

Sucking at the federal government tit, looking for big government to save the day.

What a sad outlook!

Why not just fund this locally if it is such a great deal? "But but but we need some of that free federal money! I gotsta get mine!"

[Pemgin]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Trump does the best transit, believe me. He's the best at it. No one knows more about transit than him. He has the greatest trains. The greatest tracks. With Trump as President, we will probably have nationwide rail, and complete transit systems in every major city in just the next two years. It's going to be yuuuuuuuuge!

All with gold-plated trains. And seats that grab you by the crotch when you sit on them.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by MikeHonchoATL

Sucking at the federal government tit, looking for big government to save the day.

What a sad outlook!

Why not just fund this locally if it is such a great deal? "But but but we need some of that free federal money! I gotsta get mine!"

Good point, GDOT should do the same with federal highway funding.

[memph]

Not from Atlanta but interested in transit related issues:

Has Atlanta attempted to test out how much demand there was for transit along that corridor? Here in Ontario, all of the light rail projects were chosen to be built along the busiest bus routes. King Street bus route in Kitchener-Waterloo, James and Main streets in Hamilton, Sheppard, Eglinton, Finch and Jane in Toronto... None of these are complete yet, bus considering these corridors have bus ridership of at least 20k per day, and something like 70k for Eglinton Ave, I think it's safe to say they won't be complete failures.

Seems like if you're going to spend tens if not hundreds of millions on a new streetcar or light rail system, it only makes sense to run a bus route along the planned route to get an idea of how much demand there is for it. And then only build the rail system on routes where it's been demonstrated that there's strong demand.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by memph

Not from Atlanta but interested in transit related issues:

Has Atlanta attempted to test out how much demand there was for transit along that corridor? Here in Ontario, all of the light rail projects were chosen to be built along the busiest bus routes. King Street bus route in Kitchener-Waterloo, James and Main streets in Hamilton, Sheppard, Eglinton, Finch and Jane in Toronto... None of these are complete yet, bus considering these corridors have bus ridership of at least 20k per day, and something like 70k for Eglinton Ave, I think it's safe to say they won't be complete failures.

Seems like if you're going to spend tens if not hundreds of millions on a new streetcar or light rail system, it only makes sense to run a bus route along the planned route to get an idea of how much demand there is for it. And then only build the rail system on routes where it's been demonstrated that there's strong demand.

Atlanta tried to replace our highest-used bus route, or at least a section of it, with the streetcar as a first plan. That didn't get approval because the route generally followed that of two of our heavy-rail lines.

Instead, the city angled at a route that combined freely available land for a vehicle maintenance facility, access to the city's main tourist district and a National Historic Site, high-capacity transit to a historically low-income area with room to grow while having decent density bones, and which connected to the existing heavy rail network. This route was approved, despite already having some mid-ridership bus routes serving the area.

See, the reasons why Atlanta doesn't replace a heavily used bus corridors is multi-fold:

1. At the time, there were barely any bus routes that would have qualified that also appealed to the FTA and would have made sense for such a short line.
2. The City's streetcar plan is based around the BeltLine, which no bus route can mimic, nor roads attempt to. That is, the streetcar routes are planned to compliment existing rail service as well future service that buses can't be routed in.
3. The City is, in part, using the streetcars to focus future density in a way that a bus doesn't. That is, that the streetcar routes are planned in such a way that they are attracting development to areas to build future ridership, as well as deal with current demands. Buses without dedicated right of way don't make good proxies for this.
4. With how generally close in the BeltLine is, there are piles of buses that travel within the core of the city, where the streetcars are planned to be, with potential ridership spread across any number of routes.

Basically, yes it makes sense, with an established and heavily used bus corridor, to upgrade that to rail (or BRT), but when you don't have those corridors it's still possible to plan rail. The city isn't just making up routes as it wants, rather there are ridership models and growth projections that get taken into account when designing services and routes.

[architect77]

Originally Posted by cqholt

That is not how or what streetcars are suppose to do. They are suppose to have more frequent stations than LRT and HRT, but less than local buses. They are suppose to travel the same speed as the traffic. They are not meant to have park and ride at endpoints. They do need signal priority to function better.
Streetcars vs Light Rail ... Is There a Difference? — Human Transit
Atlanta's streetcar/LRT network would operate similar to Streetcar/Tram with Light-rail like segments (BeltLine, dedicated lanes, etc.):

You can throw a rock from one station to another near GP building and Broad St/ Woodruff Park. I don't care if they are headed in opposite directions or not.

Your response wasted my time. For $100 million it is expected that the investment help the local congestion situation.

Georgia was "supposed" to be planning ahead and increasing mobility during the last 25 years, but they didn't.

There's not enough critical thinking happening in Georgia and Atlanta.


That's why our secondary roads look so primitive, pothole-ridden, 80% of street sign crooked, etc.

No one is questioning whether there's a better way to address our specific problems.

If a streetcar is restricted to a narrow definition of use, then Peachtree St. should be the only candidate, from downtown to Lenox.

[MikeHonchoATL]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Good point, GDOT should do the same with federal highway funding.

Agreed.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by memph

Not from Atlanta but interested in transit related issues:

Has Atlanta attempted to test out how much demand there was for transit along that corridor? Here in Ontario, all of the light rail projects were chosen to be built along the busiest bus routes. King Street bus route in Kitchener-Waterloo, James and Main streets in Hamilton, Sheppard, Eglinton, Finch and Jane in Toronto... None of these are complete yet, bus considering these corridors have bus ridership of at least 20k per day, and something like 70k for Eglinton Ave, I think it's safe to say they won't be complete failures.

Seems like if you're going to spend tens if not hundreds of millions on a new streetcar or light rail system, it only makes sense to run a bus route along the planned route to get an idea of how much demand there is for it. And then only build the rail system on routes where it's been demonstrated that there's strong demand.

Unfortunately, no, the proposed streetcar lines have not been tested to see how much demand there is.

Although we already have a lot of excess capacity in our transit system, the theory is that if you build more the riders will come.