The effort to split Fulton County in two is back again (Atlanta: taxes, live)
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Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
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Originally Posted by ATL Golfer
I can kind of see their point. They live 30 minutes away at minimum from the other side of the county, yet that is where a good amount their tax dollars are going. They are in essence funding a welfare system on top of the federal level they already pay in income tax.
Its a tough situation with no good solution. They cities they formed already keep some of it out of the county's hands.
I think anyone, regardless of background, can see how residents would be annoyed that their money is funding projects that they will never take advantage of.
To add a rebuttal to your point, or rather another POV from yours, people whom live in South Fulton and pay property taxes, sales taxes etc. are also funding whats happening in North Fulton. The tax dollars are pooled. So we in essence are taking care of one another. And lets not talk about the underlying people issue which fuels these types of conversation....I mean a South Fulton tax payer has NEVER been demographically profiled in nice North Fulton or made to feel unwelcome....even though they helped fund those streets the same as North Fulton residents helped fund South Fulton streets. All of this BS needs to stop. Wwe all pay for projects and things we will never use. And smartazzes will always say that its your fault if you dont utilize them. So I say the same to them.....
Public university, I meant. And I mean paying for serious students who are making good enough grades and really learning stuff, which benefits society at large. Your funding would get cut off if your grades and testing aren't at a certain standard.
General point is that it's just wise, and good for the economy, and the social fabric as well, to have an educated and healthy populace, with no one stressed out or desperate because they can't afford rent and their family might get put on the street.
People are still going to be working cash register at McDonald's for minimum wage, and in my ideal scenario that would be totally fine for everyone involved. Because that money would be spending money rather than basic family survival money.
Anyway, how this ties back into the thread, is that I do believe that government and taxation should be supporting everyone to a basic minimum level of being alive and somewhat healthy. This is a good thing for everyone, even the wealthiest CEO's in North Fulton. You're going to get a lot more out of your workers if they all want to be there to make some money or further their career, than if they're only there because they have to be or they starve. I'd rather society have some % of unemployed people that we're all supporting, than a whole lot of people being miserable, doing a half ass job at something they hate and don't care about. I dunno, just my thinking.
Now, that doesn't mean that all of North Fulton's taxes should be spread out over all of Fulton. Everything doesn't have to be equal. Some areas can simply be nicer than others. I'm no communist. But also don't hang South Fulton out to dry.
Want to consolidate? Combine Clayton into South Fulton and let Milton split off. Yeah, I think everyone in North Fulton would support that, sure. Just one question, how do you think the folks in South Fulton would feel? Think they would be on board? I mean, with all those great students and newly discovered wealth you mentioned, it should be a layup, right?
Why consolidate Clayton and South Fulton, specifically? Combining two areas with low to moderate incomes and the highest concentration of black residents while allowing a wealthy yet largely non-minority area to secede makes little sense. Except, of course, to people who feel that they should no longer have to "pay for the blacks" with their county-collected tax dollars.
Secondly, where does that leave the rest of Fulton County (which would include the CoA, mostly)? You suggesting that the CoA become an independent city? That would be interesting.
Why consolidate Clayton and South Fulton, specifically? Combining two areas with low to moderate incomes and the highest concentration of black residents while allowing a wealthy yet largely non-minority area to secede makes little sense. Except, of course, to people who feel that they should no longer have to "pay for the blacks" with their county-collected tax dollars.
Secondly, where does that leave the rest of Fulton County (which would include the CoA, mostly)? You suggesting that the CoA become an independent city? That would be interesting.
Just a completely terrible and tribal and callous idea and I hope it continues to fail. Republicans want to live in a selfish suburban enclave for WASP's with blinders on, and don't care one dime about the welfare of the rest of the county.
And if unfortunately it does happen and Fulton gets smaller, that would really thwart MARTA's vision and their income. Just... ugh. This kind of thing is why I want to just leave Georgia. Leave Fulton's borders alone.
Totally Agreed,, Seems racially motivated to me, but it may be just me..
FDR would tell people like you to get it together. Believe it or not, most progressives believe in responsibility and accountability. Then there's the fringe liberals like yourself who always want to blame someone else.
You are correct with the second sentence and failed miserably with the third.
You are correct with the second sentence and failed miserably with the third.
Blaming "liberals" is the only way to rationalize away the moral failures attributable to the self-motivated libertarian perspectives. Generally, it's the same cycle of rationalization: Libertarianism breeds antipathy for basic human decency in society, which is deemed as "liberalism", which it is, but only because basic human decency is an anathema to libertarianism since basic human decency is civic-minded instead of self-motivated. Instead of recognizing that the problem is the moral inadequacy of libertarianism, i.e., libertarianism's extreme aspect, blame is placed on the relevant tenets morality, but to be politic about it, the expression of blame is directed at advocates for that kind of morality over libertarian self-motivation, i.e., directed at liberalism.
Those aren't the ones we are talking about.....we get it. There are thousands doing everything they can to move up and on. However, there are simply too many who don't and rail at the thought of Milton being formed. As I mentioned, there was NO help, outside of their own churches/parishes for the immigrants of yesteryear and they made it out. The ones that languished behind did not fare any better.
Difference?m they didn't soak every able bodied tax payer out of their money. I think their system was better for one simple reason. It MADE people work. As a side benefit, not one job currently held by an illegal would be available anymore. Why? Because lazier Americans would HAVE to take those jobs so it has a huge economic swing factor if employed.
I'm not saying cut off the medical access. We never had even before obamacare. What I am saying is, if you want a cell phone, earn it...if you want a free lunch or breakfast, earn it....if you want foodstamps, get drug tested and lock ul every convenience store owner that frauds them.....you get the idea...remove the comforts......when I started researching how many government programs there are I was simply blown away. Reduce it to cheaper (not free) food...food stamps that CAN'T be used for just about anything, some housing assistance (not free unless you convert a military base or two), forced employment......two jobs.....elimination of all benefits if convicted of a felony (drugs)....you know, ACCOUNTABILITY????????????????
Do that, foster that, and I'll show you a poorer sector rebounding despite the huge amount of grumbling head on. Take the savings and invest in trade schools and training. Force a kid or adult to learn some skills. Take a pass and you are on your own. For all the por BS I see I have yet to see many go mow some lawns, wash some dishes, polish some cars, do more house cleaning, deliveries, etc....I see the cars, I don't see the efforts.
It's not flying. The golden goose has been squeezed long enough and now thanks to your guy, we are 19 trillion in debt and climbing. Who is going to pay THAT tab? The poor on the south side or those better off paying hundreds of thousands in taxes already like say, oh, I dunno, Milton? I really really don't have high expectations that south Fulton will be paying the tab despite the presidents best efforts to reapportion all the bennies to them...do you? Hmmmmmm?
How about we run up a huge credit card debt and stick YOU with it? How would you like if we railed at the audacity of you fighting back after we spent YOUR money? You'd be okay with that....right?
As it relates to bonehead moves of Cobb (braves stadium at one of the busiest traffic corridors in the state) it pales in comparison to when Clayton lost its accreditation for schools. I have yet to see that anywhere else in this state although, I'm sure some give it a try. Couple that with a racist black sherriff that fired every white officer based on color only to be sued in court for racist tactics that cost the already beleaguered county more money it doesn't have. Even MARTA struggles to maintain bus service there....wher are all the community leaders helping them out? If there is so much affluence in Clayton, where is it now? More like effluent. Plenty of dat'
And whenever someone makes it out, they seldom return to help. Just go to sugarloaf. Lots of NFL, NBA stars keeping THEIR distance, huh. Toni "Bwwahxtun" moved to Johns Creek years ago...why do you think she did that when she could have live in one of this e high dollar, poor investment, Hollyfield Mansions in Clayton?
Same reasons anyone would bolt. It's not safe, typically dumpy, and downright dangerous. I don't hear about many shootings on the north side in apartment campuses throwing a high school party, do you? Hmmmmm? The last thing anyone needs anywhere is "Clayton county leadership" for anything. I wouldn't trust them to run a convenience store let alone a county. Kick on Cobb all you like. You only wish Clayton were run so "poorly".
Clayton is now the mableton of counties. Plenty of jokes abound and for good reason. The best they can hope for down there is to arrange the furniture on their "Titanic" of a county is a nice patio grouping for fwwwends.
Want to consolidate? Combine Clayton into South Fulton and let Milton split off. Yeah, I think everyone in North Fulton would support that, sure. Just one question, how do you think the folks in South Fulton would feel? Think they would be on board? I mean, with all those great students and newly discovered wealth you mentioned, it should be a layup, right?
Can you really compare today's world to that of 33 years ago? It's a whole different ballgame today...I moved to Atlanta in 1989 straight out of college with no job and a small savings to get me by and parents that would help me out from time to time and I quickly found a job and got my footing. It isn't so easy today...it can still be done, but you have to realize that the world is much more complex and difficult than it was in 1983.
It reminds me of this irritating conservative NC politician that was against assisting students with loans and bragged publicly about putting herself through Carolina and never getting any loans or scholarships - but that was in 1960! It was ludicrous to compare that time period to now.
In all of this discussion too many people seem to forget about the helping hand Fulton County gave Milton many years ago and saved it from bankruptcy...how soon fortunes change and we forget about those who rescued us.
I've heard this before and my response is that that area is so completely different now with very few remaining families that this really doesn't matter. This isn't something that happened ten years ago and now those same citizens and residents want out. Depression era was the opposite of present day North Fulton. There weren't even 7,000 people in Milton county back then! Nearly everyone involved with Milton joining Fulton is now dead or pretty close to it. Even if a significant portion remained, they would be hugely outnumbered by the amount of transplants and descendants of transplants. Seriously we're talking what, 99% of present day north Fulton residents that had nothing to do with Fulton's help. If Milton county had remained and really just sucked for the past 80 years, the well off families there today would've just chosen somewhere else to live like Cobb or Gwinnett. 80 years have passed and the dissolution is really irrelevant.
It's not about it being the exact same people living there...it's still important historically whether it happened 10 or 100 years ago. It doesn't matter who had anything to do with it - it happened and it's certainly not irrelevant, and North Fulton owes much of its current-day success to Fulton County. You simply can't argue with that. Well, I guess some of you can...but it's wrong.
It's hard to believe that we're really wasting time on such an issue. This proves that Atlanta isn't ready to be an international city. Do you see Houston, Dallas, or LA trying to break apart?
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