Let's Leave I-85 Closed (Atlanta, Alpharetta: condo, subsidized, to live)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by arjay57

One word: Cut-thru traffic.

Some. But most side streets are already going to be at capacity. They are not picking up all 250k cars. And even if they were, why did we bother spending trillions building and widening out highways when we can handle it with our side streets?

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Oh no, a road was closed (and not just any road, but a 12-lane, critical piece of highway) was closed without MARTA stations in every suburban cul-de-sac! The city will now be doomed! Cats will lay with dogs!

No. People will still go back to work. Sure there will be some hotspots like there are every day. Some may have to spend extra time going a different route or connecting via MARTA from their distant suburban home, but things will go on just fine overall. Those that have been suggesting we need to wait for a significant expansion of transit before we discuss downsizing or closing any roadways have been mistaken.

So how do you explain traffic on I 85 in Gwinnett this morning? I checked at 830 and it was all green down until south of Jimmy Carter. Any sort of connection with MARTA would have taken them down 85 anyway to get to the Doraville station. People taking 285 as an alternate route still would have taken 85 SB to get there. Bus routes are also detoured so it's not like that would have saved them time. Would've been in the same congestion anyway. There are only a few buses all commute that link to a MARTA station.

[AnsleyPark]

Drove into the city yesterday and left around 10:00 am this morning. Traffic really wasn't bad. It was very strange, though, getting on 85N at Cheshirebridge and there were but a few cars on the road. I suppose it being spring break, that a lot of families are out of town. I imagine next week will be more difficult driving.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

So how do you explain traffic on I 85 in Gwinnett this morning? I checked at 830 and it was all green down until south of Jimmy Carter. Any sort of connection with MARTA would have taken them down 85 anyway to get to the Doraville station. People taking 285 as an alternate route still would have taken 85 SB to get there. Bus routes are also detoured so it's not like that would have saved them time. Would've been in the same congestion anyway. There are only a few buses all commute that link to a MARTA station.

That is the beautiful thing. It was no one option. It was all the options. Some took the bus. Some drove to a different rail station. Some took a different roadway. Some worked from home. Some adjusted their schedule. Some were on spring break.

If we made this a permanent closure, we would get even more alternatives being taken up like people & offices moving.

People will adjust to fill whatever free road capacity is available.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

So how do you explain traffic on I 85 in Gwinnett this morning? I checked at 830 and it was all green down until south of Jimmy Carter. Any sort of connection with MARTA would have taken them down 85 anyway to get to the Doraville station. People taking 285 as an alternate route still would have taken 85 SB to get there. Bus routes are also detoured so it's not like that would have saved them time. Would've been in the same congestion anyway. There are only a few buses all commute that link to a MARTA station.

Flood the zone with buses and you have redundancy sufficient to take care of unexpected system changes.

Another thing we should keep in mind is that roads are not the only infrastructure subject to damage from outside sources. What if it had been a MARTA bridge that had burned down?

[Need4Camaro]

This is truly unbelievable...

Originally Posted by jsvh

Yes, I do think 250k cars will "just find another way". What do you think they are going to do, all line up and try to jump the gap?

Let's just revisit next week then. But I am confident that like today and Friday, traffic will not be much worse than it is any other day of the year. (But yes, I do agree Spring Break is a factor too).

Traffic will be much worse on the North End. The southern end probably won't feel it much. But the North end DEFINATELY will as their roads were already maxed out to capacity and overwhelmed, now they have another 250,000 displaced cars..even if HALF of them stop commuting, thats forcing ATLEAST another 100,000 cars onto I-285... which is already maxed out... and I don't know where you've been but traffic has been horrible on Thursday and Friday both...
I was on I-285 on SUNDAY and the ramps to I-75 south were backed up from Riverside Dr to the exit.. people ARE feeling it...

Yes.. others can find other means, but not everyone has means to access MARTA efficiently. And trust me trust me TRUST me when I say if the Governor said we're closing I-85 permanently, everyone take MARTA, half of Gwinnett will pack its bags and leave. If everyone crowded up on MARTA it would find itself overwhelmed quite quickly. MARTA was never designed with the capacity to handle Atlanta's suburban commuters..only those within and just outside of the perimeter. Even that aside though.. people "can" find other means, but going to I-75 and I-20 take you about 30 miles out of route... and you have to account for doing that both ways.. If you go into town.. you reserve mostly the same distance, but you'll be sitting in traffic as you're forced off at Lenox RD or Sydney Marcus - Know why thats important? Because THAT COSTS MORE FUEL.. which will need to be accounted for every commute into town... lastly... I-85 is an Interstate - its route is apart of the nations national defense system. They cannot close it.

Originally Posted by jsvh

If we made this a permanent closure, we would get even more alternatives being taken up like people & offices moving.

People would adjust.. ..by leaving a city too incompetent to repair a federal highway... there.. all the traffic problems resolved!

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

This is truly unbelievable...


Traffic will be much worse on the North End. The southern end probably won't feel it much. But the North end DEFINATELY will as their roads were already maxed out to capacity and overwhelmed, now they have another 250,000 displaced cars..even if HALF of them stop commuting, thats forcing ATLEAST another 100,000 cars onto I-285... which is already maxed out... and I don't know where you've been but traffic has been horrible on Thursday and Friday both...
I was on I-285 on SUNDAY and the ramps to I-75 south were backed up from Riverside Dr to the exit.. people ARE feeling it...

Yes.. others can find other means, but not everyone has means to access MARTA efficiently. And trust me trust me TRUST me when I say if the Governor said we're closing I-85 permanently, everyone take MARTA, half of Gwinnett will pack its bags and leave. If everyone crowded up on MARTA it would find itself overwhelmed quite quickly. MARTA was never designed with the capacity to handle Atlanta's suburban commuters..only those within and just outside of the perimeter. Even that aside though.. people "can" find other means, but going to I-75 and I-20 take you about 30 miles out of route... and you have to account for doing that both ways.. If you go into town.. you reserve mostly the same distance, but you'll be sitting in traffic as you're forced off at Lenox RD or Sydney Marcus - Know why thats important? Because THAT COSTS MORE FUEL.. which will need to be accounted for every commute into town... lastly... I-85 is an Interstate - its route is apart of the nations national defense system. They cannot close it.



People would adjust.. ..by leaving a city too incompetent to repair a federal highway... there.. all the traffic problems resolved!

Alright chicken little. Lets see just how much worse things are next week. My bet (again): Not much worse than normal, with ITP better off and 285 / OTP worse off (since they are stuck in car dependency).

Meanwhile... Atlanta I-85 collapse: The word on Monday’s commute? Not so horrible | AJC

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by jsvh

That is the beautiful thing. It was no one option. It was all the options. Some took the bus. Some drove to a different rail station. Some took a different roadway. Some worked from home. Some adjusted their schedule. Some were on spring break.

If we made this a permanent closure, we would get even more alternatives being taken up like people & offices moving.

People will adjust to fill whatever free road capacity is available.

Spring break is not a long term adjustment and won't last long. Not everyone can switch to telecommuting seamlessly and those who could probably did a long time ago. People taking rail still need to get to the station which is why I brought up Gwinnett. There are very few bus options that even go to MARTA. Not to mention those working too far away from MARTA. There are no alternate routes for 85 in Gwinnett but none are needed for this anyway since it's an ITP closure.

Check out the bridges crossing the Chattahoochee from Fulton to Gwinnett. Completely unaffected from 85 closing and yet, not even the slightest hint of a delay in places that are usually pretty bad. So what alternate routes did they take? What transit did they use to get to Johns Creek, Alpharetta, or Forsyth County?

And what about 75 in Cobb? That corridor is barely affected and yet at 4:30 PM it's completely green from midtown north. Now why on earth would they take alternate routes? Only some of those drivers would have been affected by 285's increased traffic to/from PC. The majority didn't even need to detour.

It's obvious that we don't have anywhere close to 100% of the normal workforce working today. But please, keep on thinking this is the new normal.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

People would adjust.. ..by leaving a city too incompetent to repair a federal highway... there.. all the traffic problems resolved!

It might be beside your point, but cities aren't responsible for maintaining interstate highways.

[jsvh]

Gridlock Guy: I-85 bridge collapse could be blessing, if we let it