one man's opinion (Atlanta, Columbus, Macon: construction, university, live in)

[The QC]

I live in Charlotte, and I do not get to Atl very often now. But in the 1980s and 19900s , I traveled there frequently. I can recall that you did not begin to have a traffic problem until the mid to late 1990s. From there it snowballed out of control because of adding approximately one million new residents each decade. In 1985, Atl's metro population was around 2.5 million. Twenty five years later the population had doubled to five million. During that time, the only major new freeway added (not spurs) was the GA 400. And you guys wonder why you have a traffic problem. Transit lines were not increased in number and not expanded to outlying counties. Yes capacity was added but that was not enough. I saw a commentary on line from a spokesman within the transportation department at Texas A&M University. He said that a basic spoke and hub system with one beltway is not sufficient to handle the traffic generated from a growing metro like Atl. He said cross town freeways and more than one beltway is needed. He pointed out that Dallas Fort Worth has been successful moving traffic using this approach. He stayed that area is constantly updating its freeway system with new freeways. DFW does not have fourteen lane freeways. DFW just builds another six to eight lane freeway where it is needed. I have personally experienced the benefit of cross town freeways in the DFW area. I was traveling northbound on i35 in FW. I needed to get north of Dallas. I did not have to get on a congested beltway to do this. Instead i used a cross town freeway to north of Dallas with absolutely no congestion.

[jsvh]

Dallas is not a role model for avoiding traffic congestion.

Also, sounds like you got to Atlanta right after our attempts at "freeing the freeways" finished construction. Which got us a couple years of flowing traffic, but of course ultimately only made traffic worse in the long run due to induced demand.

But even if more freeways would actually improve things in the long run (which most evidence points against), there is not political will to get them built. That has already been tried: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_freeway_revolts

[The QC]

I know that Atl is not interested in building new freeways. But it makes me wonder. Had Atl done a few things differently would traffic be significantly better? Instead of continuing to expand i85, i75 and i285, what if Atl would have used a different approach? Maybe a freeway could have been built or could still be built from i85 near the middle of Gwinnett. That freeway would have crossed i20 ten to fifteen miles outside the beltway and continued on to cross i75 near Jackson/griffin. It would continue and by pass Macon and connect with i75 south of Macon. Another freeway would have been built from i75 in mid cobb that would also travel southeast and cross i20 east of i285 and continue on to cross i75 near Jackson where it would continue to south of Macon. Another similar freeway would have been built from i85 in Gwinnett southwest that would have crossed i75 and connected with i20 on the west side approximately twenty miles beyond the beltway. Another freeway from i75 would have been built southwest to connect with i20 west of i285. These two changes would have taken a lot of traffic off i85, i75 and i285. This would have helped to relieve congestion along i285 from i75 on east side to i20 on the west side while moving traffic from i85 and i75. Now there are only two points to make connections from one interstate to another interstate. Those two points are along i285 and the downtown connector. This is not the case in DFW. The spurs that I mentioned above would create a third point to connect interstates.

[SenseSoCommon]

Originally Posted by The QC

I live in Charlotte, and I do not get to Atl very often now. But in the 1980s and 19900s , I traveled there frequently. I can recall that you did not begin to have a traffic problem until the mid to late 1990s. From there it snowballed out of control because of adding approximately one million new residents each decade. In 1985, Atl's metro population was around 2.5 million. Twenty five years later the population had doubled to five million. During that time, the only major new freeway added (not spurs) was the GA 400. And you guys wonder why you have a traffic problem. Transit lines were not increased in number and not expanded to outlying counties. Yes capacity was added but that was not enough. I saw a commentary on line from a spokesman within the transportation department at Texas A&M University. He said that a basic spoke and hub system with one beltway is not sufficient to handle the traffic generated from a growing metro like Atl. He said cross town freeways and more than one beltway is needed. He pointed out that Dallas Fort Worth has been successful moving traffic using this approach. He stayed that area is constantly updating its freeway system with new freeways. DFW does not have fourteen lane freeways. DFW just builds another six to eight lane freeway where it is needed. I have personally experienced the benefit of cross town freeways in the DFW area. I was traveling northbound on i35 in FW. I needed to get north of Dallas. I did not have to get on a congested beltway to do this. Instead i used a cross town freeway to north of Dallas with absolutely no congestion.

Almost every survey I have seen has Dallas worse than Atlanta when it comes to traffic if not equally as bad.
I travell all over the U.S. frequently,While Atlanta is bad,so many other places are far worse.

D.C has the same spoke/hub layout as Atlanta but there is a difference as D.C.is worse.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst...rive-in/13964/

[The QC]

You mentioned that DFW is not a model. But I have driven there and traffic moves fairly well for seven million people. I know it is too late now cause no more new freeways will be built. But it is an interesting thought.

[SenseSoCommon]

Originally Posted by The QC

I know that Atl is not interested in building new freeways. But it makes me wonder. Had Atl done a few things differently would traffic be significantly better? Instead of continuing to expand i85, i75 and i285, what if Atl would have used a different approach? Maybe a freeway could have been built or could still be built from i85 near the middle of Gwinnett. That freeway would have crossed i20 ten to fifteen miles outside the beltway and continued on to cross i75 near Jackson/griffin. It would continue and by pass Macon and connect with i75 south of Macon. Another freeway would have been built from i75 in mid cobb that would also travel southeast and cross i20 east of i285 and continue on to cross i75 near Jackson where it would continue to south of Macon. Another similar freeway would have been built from i85 in Gwinnett southwest that would have crossed i75 and connected with i20 on the west side approximately twenty miles beyond the beltway. Another freeway from i75 would have been built southwest to connect with i20 west of i285. These two changes would have taken a lot of traffic off i85, i75 and i285. This would have helped to relieve congestion along i285 from i75 on east side to i20 on the west side while moving traffic from i85 and i75. Now there are only two points to make connections from one interstate to another interstate. Those two points are along i285 and the downtown connector. This is not the case in DFW. The spurs that I mentioned above would create a third point to connect interstates.

You are assuming a lot of things when you suggest what they could have done and what would have been the benefit or the casualty of those actions.
I do think the biggest problem in Atlanta is the connector.
If they can fix that problem I think it would alleviate much of what cause such back ups all over.

[The QC]

But I do think that a new interstate could be built from Clt that runs parallel to i85 that would pass through Athens and on to Macon and on to Columbus and maybe beyond that. The i85 corridor from clt through GSP to ATL will need continued expansion over the years. A parallel interstate that by passes ATL could benefit travelers and ATL. Texas A& M university estimates trucks account for 26 percent cent of congestion in metro areas. An interstate that by passes Atl could remove truck traffic and leisure and business travelers from Atl interstates. Alot of traffic is moving south to Fla and to connect to i10. All of this traffic could bypass Atl. In addition it could provide an interstate through Athens. I have heard Athens is one of largest metros without an interstate. But I do not know if that is true. Money will continue to be spent on interstates in georgia but maybe not Atlanta. Use that money to build a true by pass that does not come near Atl. Something similar has done to by pass Chicago with i80 and i35. Will probably never happen but I think
It would serve a useful purpose.

[The QC]

You mentioned D.C. And it's spoke and hub system. Yes it has a spoke and hub and horrific traffic. northern NJ moves traffic pretty good and it has a number of freeways moving traffic into NYC. NJ uses truck lanes on turnpike that help out and Chicago on i94 uses local and express lanes. I am only saying that Atl had a pretty good freeway system to serve up 3.5 million people but then it stopped being creative. I know Atl has got to move more to transit. It I believe Atl could be creative and improve its congestion considerably. But I know that it takes money. But I believe that clt may be using atlanta's model and frankly that scares me. I see gridlock in charlotte's future but I hope that I am wrong. Chsrlotte clsims they are using better land use planning than Atl but we will see.

[SenseSoCommon]

Originally Posted by The QC

But I do think that a new interstate could be built from Clt that runs parallel to i85 that would pass through Athens and on to Macon and on to Columbus and maybe beyond that. The i85 corridor from clt through GSP to ATL will need continued expansion over the years. A parallel interstate that by passes ATL could benefit travelers and ATL. Texas A& M university estimates trucks account for 26 percent cent of congestion in metro areas. An interstate that by passes Atl could remove truck traffic and leisure and business travelers from Atl interstates. Alot of traffic is moving south to Fla and to connect to i10. All of this traffic could bypass Atl. In addition it could provide an interstate through Athens. I have heard Athens is one of largest metros without an interstate. But I do not know if that is true. Money will continue to be spent on interstates in georgia but maybe not Atlanta. Use that money to build a true by pass that does not come near Atl. Something similar has done to by pass Chicago with i80 and i35. Will probably never happen but I think
It would serve a useful purpose.

Their is I 95, A connector or spur of or ts could connect to it somewhere.

I think there is 316 that comes from Athens Its a highway but more like an interstate.There is major development around there but I dont live in Georgia all the time and when Im there Im not in that area much

BTW 18 wheelers cannot drive within the perimeter on 85/75

[Atlanta Scientist]

People think that Atlanta is gridlocked 24/7? Outside of rush hour/ accidents traffic flows. The connector is used as an example of gridlock but anyone who lives here knows not to use it to get around the city. We don't need more interstates.