"Exotic" in Atlanta (Boston, White: how much, school, gated)

[seussie]

Colorism is not only an issue in black communities.

[wasel]

Originally Posted by CaliDreaming01

Yeah, it's positive, but it's kind of like describing a black person as articulate. It's based in stereotypes. It can be a stereotype about what it means to look American or black or what-have-you. It's pretty much saying "you don't look like us" or "you don't look like them". Depending on who you're talking to, it can be a compliment or it can be an insult.

Is there a down side to just assuming it's a compliment? I'm not sure why the default response always has to be negative.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by wasel

Is there a down side to just assuming it's a compliment? I'm not sure why the default response always has to be negative.

It could be getting sexualized because for a long time (and perhaps still), "exotic dancer" was the common term used for stripper.

[CaliDreaming01]

Originally Posted by wasel

Is there a down side to just assuming it's a compliment? I'm not sure why the default response always has to be negative.

It may be a compliment to the giving it, but not the one receiving. If you want to be sure the compliment has the desired effect, then it’s best to use one that is universally thought of as positive.

[DreamerD]

Originally Posted by seussie

Colorism is definitely a thing in Black communities. But, it is also an unspoken issue in many cultures throughout the world in which lighter carries certain contexts of privilege and darkness carries certain negative ideas. Then again it depends on "whose colorism." Darker can seem better than lighter, depending on the culture and background of someone- IE religious white tanners is just one quick and crude example. It's disappointing that we seem to only think about this when it comes to Black folk. But since you describe being in mostly white and/or black spaces DreamerD, I'd say I found more people in the South imply racial connotations (IE "mixed" is supposedly better, by both self-hating Black folk or pasty-hating White folk), whereas my social circles in Boston used exotic to describe a preference for Western and Central European Whites. It means lots of things by different people, but I also find that the two common denominators (when "exotic" is a problem) tend to be stated by people whose experiences with other cultures is provincial or by people who fetishize difference.

1. Yes, you're right. It does depend and isn't something that should ever be simplified.



2. Isn't that the craziest thing? I don't even want to get into it this late though lol.



3. I used to live in New York and don't remember women or men ever being described as exotic. Even in Metro Atlanta, I never used to hear exotic used like that. I more hear this word used in my adulthood and the people who use it do tend to be from Atlanta or from the South. Now obviously I saw light-skinned (mostly women) people always being called "fine," even though a guy won't see her face, there was always the assumption as long as she had what they consider to be a nice body; so I won't say that there wasn't ever any bias towards certain shades but exotic being used so often is pretty new to me. It was something I just heard white people say and now I'm seeing a lot of black and mixed-race folks, in particular men, using it. I mostly hang around men and so I will admit that potential bias. I should add that growing up and even now, most black/mixed women from what I've seen, don't go after light-skinned men as the men do women. I feel that there is more love for darker-skinned men (versus darker -skinned women for men) but at the same time, it's not a must, nor a strong preference. It's like they just want a man who has his **** together; I have always found it interesting the importance of how light a woman must be for a black man to look at her versus more acceptance for any shade among black/mixed women.





It leaves me thinking...when did exotic become okay to use among black people (in particular men because don't remember hearing women use it)? I don't see white people using it too often other than when they describe countries and sometimes you do get the feeling they are including the people in the country when they use the term. Still, it doesn't go to say they don't see people as exotic in their minds/call people exotic when they are around other white people.



It's really sad to see this level of mental slavery in 2018. What you wrote regarding Boston and Western and Central Europeans is interesting. The first thing that came to mind when I read it was all these articles that come out every year listing the countries with the most beautiful women. At the top, you ALWAYS see countries like Norway, Sweden, etc., at the top because white women, blond hair. Yes, they are very fetishized not just in the U.S. but worldwide. Our media and its reaches, is a powerful force.

[DreamerD]

Originally Posted by CaliDreaming01

Yes this is such a good point and it's a shame. When you look back at history, so many light skinned blacks were instrumental in the Civil Rights movement. I think it can be harder for darker skinned blacks to accept that racism affects light skinned blacks just as badly because of resentment over the perceived advantages that in truth are only are only superficial. It must be hard to be fight so hard and care so much and not feeling accepted by the people you are fighting for and feel a kinship with.

I think light skinned blacks are in a unique position to speak out on racism and we all need to be coming together. I notice some biracial blacks are especially outspoken--I'm thinking of Colin Kaepernack (sp??)

I feel darker-skinned people because they are so far away from whiteness, did fear to protest more because of how they got/get treated by white people versus their lighter-skinned counterpart.



The bolded makes me think of W.E.B. Du Bois and double consciousness. Yes, it is hard because you have literally white, Asian, Hispanics, etc., all against you and then to have "your own people" against you too...it's heartbreaking. There's such a loneliness. I understand what slavery did to black people psychologically and I do understand that slavery though in other forms, still exists today. Notwithstanding these things, black people of all shades must stop treating each other the way they do. If you don't love yourself, how can you expect to love others?



Absolutely! It needs to be all and not just some. I remember going to this protest one day...it was for a black man in prison who may have been thrown in there for a crime he did not commit (there was reason to believe that he was not guilty as there was no physical evidence against him amongst other things). I stood there looking at the crowd that I would say was probably at least 50 per cent white (I think many of them were from Amnesty International; so there is that bias as the ones I've seen so far tend to be white). It was nice to see white people protesting but I was very very disappointed in how Atlanta and the burbs have so many black people and to not see them out there fighting for this man to be given another trial...it was upsetting. The crowd protesting was SO SMALL. This black man (not too dark-skinned but on the darker side) in a car was legit. laughing at us. I told him he could be that man in prison and then he got mad at me. It me sick to my stomach to see a black man laugh at people who are fighting for someone who is about to be put to death for a crime he may not have committed. Troy Davis was dark-skinned and so you can't say he didn't feel sorry for the man because he was light...he didn't see the importance of standing up and fighting for what's right. I want to say those who were black and there were more on the light side but it was so long ago.

[DreamerD]

Originally Posted by CaliDreaming01

This has been such a great discussion....

Yes, it is. I like to hear other perspectives. It helps me to learn and evaluate my beliefs/life experiences.

[DreamerD]

Originally Posted by seussie

Colorism is not only an issue in black communities.

Thank you for saying this. You are absolutely right and I hope I haven't made it seem as if it is. I was trying to stick with my experiences and Atlanta because my posts get deleted more often than not if I don't stay on topic.



Someone actually told me the other day that colorism exists in South Korea and you will see when a lighter Korean and a darker Korean who are standing together the way each are spoken to.



Just all over the world really but many many Asian countries, Middle Eastern countries, also come to mind. It definitely is not something just the U.S. faces or black people in general.

[DreamerD]

Originally Posted by wasel

Is there a down side to just assuming it's a compliment? I'm not sure why the default response always has to be negative.

That's a good question. In the eyes of the person making the comment, it could very much be a compliment. But I can think of one white man and one mixed-race man who called me exotic and they knew I had a problem with it and legit didn't feel sorry for calling me it even after I full on confronted them about it. At the end of it, they thought it was totally fine what they said and were justified in believing it and saying it. Obviously it was very insulting to me.



Some black men like to be exoticified (I might have made that word up). They like the whole big black _ thing and being seen as this powerful sexual (and perhaps even skilled) thing. I put thing for a reason because many might not see how it objectifies them. So the person asking for a black man to _ them, especially them asking for a BBC, might be seen as "complimenting" them and the black men that respond to this might not see it as an insult.



What I am trying to say with the second paragraph is that it depends on the person receiving the "compliment" or insult how they will view it.

[brooklyndodger]

Originally Posted by DreamerD

That's a good question. In the eyes of the person making the comment, it could very much be a compliment. But I can think of one white man and one mixed-race man who called me exotic and they knew I had a problem with it and legit didn't feel sorry for calling me it even after I full on confronted them about it. At the end of it, they thought it was totally fine what they said and were justified in believing it and saying it. Obviously it was very insulting to me.



Some black men like to be exoticified (I might have made that word up). They like the whole big black _ thing and being seen as this powerful sexual (and perhaps even skilled) thing. I put thing for a reason because many might not see how it objectifies them. So the person asking for a black man to _ them, especially them asking for a BBC, might be seen as "complimenting" them and the black men that respond to this might not see it as an insult.



What I am trying to say with the second paragraph is that it depends on the person receiving the "compliment" or insult how they will view it.

Most men, black, white or yellow don't care why women are attracted to us. We aren't that complicated. I have had women say they were attracted to me because of the shape of my nose, shape of my eyes, hair texture, and brown skin. Never once was I offended because these Black, Asian, or White women were attracted to my features. I have never heard a person describe me as "exotic", but I wouldn't be offended. Honestly, I think people are looking for a reason to be offended.