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Did you see what happened to Paul Howard? That is what Keisha has waiting for her next year. The whole reason we are even discussing this is they both got political and it cost Paul Howard his precious job in a landslide loss. Paul Howard being removed from office was step one in restoring morale. Step two will put an end to this nightmare.
I'm aware, but I was trying to see if KLB would be capable of reversing the situation in her current position without specifically referencing to her as I knew that would end up going into a huge debate about it.. ..which happened anyway.
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Originally Posted by cwkimbro
I have a very different perspective on KLB than the conservatives do, especially the ones that just seem to look for an excuse to politically hang anything left of Fox News.
Atlanta is majority AA, so is the APD.
I think she made a very good attempt at trying to make people feel their voices were heard initially. She didn't create the situation or fan the flames.
I do feel she was perhaps a bit naive to believe how far that would go. I also think she exposed the city to lawsuits by dropping some legitimate charges against some people, because there was a slightest possibility of police misbehavior. To me I feel it inadvertently sent a message that if you can get the police to overreact, it's ok to fight them and ok to disobey a lawful order at an investigation. You have to work on the problems on both sides of the coin.
I'll give her some criticism, but I'm not going to fault her or blame her for trying and making a legitimate attempt at hearing people.
One of the largest problems to come of everything that has happened is people are trapping themselves into creating some type of false Police vs. black people/BLM battle-line. It's coming from both sides of the political spectrum and it really is unproductive and in my viewpoint incorrect.
The APD is called by the public about 800,000x times a year. A majority of it is actually on behalf of black callers that need help and largely the amount of questionable problems are relatively few. The few that happen come from risky situations
I don't want to make the mistake over over-reacting one way or another. That is largely what is fanning the flames in our country, not KLB. In terms of BLM, I think it is important to be careful at the difference of the simple message that is BLM and the way many perceive it vs. looking for the worse messengers/actors within what is otherwise a very broad movement that lacks too much specific messaging and lacks having well-defined leadership that represents its sole messaging. I don't agree with everything I hear from it either, but I'm not going to look for the worse of it for a political jab and I am going to seek some understanding from many on what is really just a simple message that a large portion of the country wants to live their life in the pursuit of happiness without fear.
But I find it doubtful that most voters within the city of Atlanta put KLB and Paul Howard in the same boat. Paul Howard was already embattled from issues he created within how own department and he tried to use a public uprising as a hail-mary in a manner that was reckless.
To some decree I also understand public concern however. I believe we would be blind to insinuate that there aren't definitely problems within the policing system that need to be addressed whether those be in the light of racism or plainly oppressive recruits. I do believe many of the instances, especially as of late have been overblown due to media hype or political bias, but I also feel we shouldn't be oblivious to the fact problems do exist and are very real problems that some seem to shrug away because these issues do not directly impact them.
That stated, I personally am 'not' for removing entire policing forces as police are apart of functional society and definitely have their place and even as a black person, I personally would be much more afraid of a lawless city anywhere in this country than of a cop specifically, but I am definitely pro reform in the approach of increasing the morale integrity of the recruits they hire.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 09-24-2020 at 07:35 PM..
Imagine the lack of upside to being a black person in a society that requires you to constantly justify our presence. You always are filmed, baited and the burden of proof is on you for everything. The burden of your entire race is predicated on your behavior. Every office/store etc that you enter, you have to prove you are worthy to be trusted. Every elevator you enter, hallway, lobby you enter you are burdened to make others feel comfortable.
...and the pay sucks
Agreed 100%. There’s a lot of people here being what they believe is “pragmatic” when it’s not their life that’s at risk.
Rayshard Brooks was killed after he fell asleep drunk at a Wendy’s drive-in. If this had happened in Canton to a white guy (or Mayberry for that matter...) we wouldn’t be talking about it today.
Look, as a white guy, I’ll admit to having kneejerk racial prejudices myself. But I’m not fit to be a police officer. If it takes having only cops of the same race responding to these calls, whatever it takes. Black people should not be being killed and arrested at 3x, 7x (respectively) the rate that white people are in 2020. We need to solve this problem *now* and stop pretending “this isn’t about race” when it’s 100% exactly about race. So much hypocrisy here it makes me puke.
Agreed 100%. There’s a lot of people here being what they believe is “pragmatic” when it’s not their life that’s at risk.
Rayshard Brooks was killed after he fell asleep drunk at a Wendy’s drive-in. If this had happened in Canton to a white guy (or Mayberry for that matter...) we wouldn’t be talking about it today.
Look, as a white guy, I’ll admit to having kneejerk racial prejudices myself. But I’m not fit to be a police officer. If it takes having only cops of the same race responding to these calls, whatever it takes. Black people should not be being killed and arrested at 3x, 7x (respectively) the rate that white people are in 2020. We need to solve this problem *now* and stop pretending “this isn’t about race” when it’s 100% exactly about race. So much hypocrisy here it makes me puke.
Agreed 100%. There’s a lot of people here being what they believe is “pragmatic” when it’s not their life that’s at risk.
Rayshard Brooks was killed after he fell asleep drunk at a Wendy’s drive-in. If this had happened in Canton to a white guy (or Mayberry for that matter...) we wouldn’t be talking about it today.
Look, as a white guy, I’ll admit to having kneejerk racial prejudices myself. But I’m not fit to be a police officer. If it takes having only cops of the same race responding to these calls, whatever it takes. Black people should not be being killed and arrested at 3x, 7x (respectively) the rate that white people are in 2020. We need to solve this problem *now* and stop pretending “this isn’t about race” when it’s 100% exactly about race. So much hypocrisy here it makes me puke.
I agree with some things, but not others.
I don't want black people arrested more often, but there is more crime within that community. Black people are more frequently calling on police for help with issues from other black people more than any other victim-offender pairing in the country. Until that is fixed, they will likely have higher arrest rates and that is not the fault the police officers themselves.
As far as the situation with Rayshard Brooks goes, you omitted critical key details.
He wasn't killed after falling asleep drunk in a Wendy's parking lot. He was killed after falling asleep drunk in a Wendy's parking lot, resisting arrest, attacking 2 police officers, and was firing a type of weapon at an officer that struck the officer in the very moment before the other officer fired his gun.
I realize the grey area that we are talking about a taser and that it is a weapon designed to not be lethal, but can be in a rare circumstance and can temporarily incapacitate someone.
We have now charged that officer with murder and the other one was charged with aggravated assault for stepping on his shoulder for less than 2 seconds as he was trying to secure and assess what happened when he has a concussion from being assaulted himself.
This is the core of the problem we have. We can sunday morning quarterback this all we want. We can reprimand the police officer. We can even fire him. But now we are destroying his life too, from being put in a highly questionable dangerous situation that his job demands he be there for and he didn't create himself.
I don't like the outcome, but I don't agree charging an officer with murder when he's been attacked and has a split second to figure out what to do when the suspect is discharging a weapon at another officer.
And you're right... it isn't my life at risk. I don't drive drunk, I don't attack police officers, I don't steal their tasers, and I don't fire them at police. I don't put myself at-risk. That is what you missed. That was a risk he put himself into. I also wouldn't become a police officer, because I see the risk of the other side. The police also put themselves are at risk too and it was a very a grey, risky situation. Now they face risks from those desperately fighting them and they face risks from over-zealous prosecution when they try to protect themselves in a dangerous situation.
I also don't see the hypocrisy you try to create. There was just a video on a news from a white girl in Oconee county that approached an officer with a weapon that was not a gun. She was killed and was an immediate threat to the officer and others with a weapon. We should pick over that situation too, try to learn from it, and find ways to handle it better. However, so far no one is calling for that police officer to charged with murder either and there is no overzealous DA turning that into a race-issue to charge the officer. It isn't correct to say it doesn't happen to white people too. However, if it correct to say there are more crime problems in certain areas of our society with the persistence of poverty and social issues and there are more issues with crime within the black community.
I'm not afraid to say there aren't things that are wrong and there aren't things that need to be fixed. I also don't have the answers, but we are having issues with police morale right now for very real reasons too.
However, that isn't caused or solved by the police officers themselves and neither will be pressing murder charges on one of them in these dangerous dicey situations they didn't create. Those problems will persist, because that problem stems from larger issues within society at-large.
I don't want black people arrested more often, but there is more crime within that community. Black people are more frequently calling on police for help with issues from other black people more than any other victim-offender pairing in the country. Until that is fixed, they will likely have higher arrest rates and that is not the fault the police officers themselves.
As far as the situation with Rayshard Brooks goes, you omitted critical key details.
He wasn't killed after falling asleep drunk in a Wendy's parking lot. He was killed after falling asleep drunk in a Wendy's parking lot, resisting arrest, attacking 2 police officers, and was firing a type of weapon at an officer that struck the officer in the very moment before the other officer fired his gun.
I realize the grey area that we are talking about a taser and that it is a weapon designed to not be lethal, but can be in a rare circumstance and can temporarily incapacitate someone.
We have now charged that officer with murder and the other one was charged with aggravated assault for stepping on his shoulder for less than 2 seconds as he was trying to secure and assess what happened when he has a concussion from being assaulted himself.
This is the core of the problem we have. We can sunday morning quarterback this all we want. We can reprimand the police officer. We can even fire him. But now we are destroying his life too, from being put in a highly questionable dangerous situation that his job demands he be there for and he didn't create himself.
I don't like the outcome, but I don't agree charging an officer with murder when he's been attacked and has a split second to figure out what to do when the suspect is discharging a weapon at another officer.
And you're right... it isn't my life at risk. I don't drive drunk, I don't attack police officers, I don't steal their tasers, and I don't fire them at police. I don't put myself at-risk. That is what you missed. That was a risk he put himself into. I also wouldn't become a police officer, because I see the risk of the other side. The police also put themselves are at risk too and it was a very a grey, risky situation. Now they face risks from those desperately fighting them and they face risks from over-zealous prosecution when they try to protect themselves in a dangerous situation.
I also don't see the hypocrisy you try to create. There was just a video on a news from a white girl in Oconee county that approached an officer with a weapon that was not a gun. She was killed and was an immediate threat to the officer and others with a weapon. We should pick over that situation too, try to learn from it, and find ways to handle it better. However, so far no one is calling for that police officer to charged with murder either and there is no overzealous DA turning that into a race-issue to charge the officer. It isn't correct to say it doesn't happen to white people too. However, if it correct to say there are more crime problems in certain areas of our society with the persistence of poverty and social issues and there are more issues with crime within the black community.
I'm not afraid to say there aren't things that are wrong and there aren't things that need to be fixed. I also don't have the answers, but we are having issues with police morale right now for very real reasons too.
However, that isn't caused or solved by the police officers themselves and neither will be pressing murder charges on one of them in these dangerous dicey situations they didn't create. Those problems will persist, because that problem stems from larger issues within society at-large.
Very well articulated. Thank you!
In 2019 there were a total of 1,004 instances of people being killed by police. 802 of those incidents noted the race of the police officer and the suspect. 371 were white. 236 were black. The vast majority of all these suspects killed were armed.
Only 10 incidents occurred where black suspects were unarmed when they were killed, nine men and one woman. 8 of these 10 were deemed justified by the law
2019 was the safest year for black suspects in police custody since we have kept statistics, from a 2015 peak.
Number of police killed.... 48.
Statistics show that blacks have NOT been targeted disproportionate to crimes committed.
So the real focus should be on how we can best reduce crime within the black community. Historically, simply throwing money at issues like single parenthood/fatherless households, illiteracy, high school education, and joblessness has not helped the issue in the last 20 years.
I don't have all the answers, by my heart does go out to the officers fighting the good fight for america everyday
Last edited by Citykid3785; 09-25-2020 at 06:16 AM..
Agreed 100%. There’s a lot of people here being what they believe is “pragmatic” when it’s not their life that’s at risk.
Rayshard Brooks was killed after he fell asleep drunk at a Wendy’s drive-in. If this had happened in Canton to a white guy (or Mayberry for that matter...) we wouldn’t be talking about it today.
Look, as a white guy, I’ll admit to having kneejerk racial prejudices myself. But I’m not fit to be a police officer. If it takes having only cops of the same race responding to these calls, whatever it takes. Black people should not be being killed and arrested at 3x, 7x (respectively) the rate that white people are in 2020. We need to solve this problem *now* and stop pretending “this isn’t about race” when it’s 100% exactly about race. So much hypocrisy here it makes me puke.
Rayshard Brooks was killed because he resisted a lawful arrest assaulted two police officers stole one of their weapons then turned and deployed it at them. He wasn't killed because he was black. Plenty of white people are killed by police every year but it is ignored and never discussed by the media. Its as if it doesn't matter or exist. As far as being arrested quit committing crimes. That goes for everyone and we have the FBI statistics that break down who is committing the most crime in this country. We also have interracial violent crime statistics and they don't back up what groups like BLM claim they do. Since the George Floyd protests/riots in the city of Atlanta there have been almost 50 black people shot and killed (some including children) in the city and not a single one of them was killed or shot by a white person. Until that is fixed you are going to have a hard time convincing people that look at the actual real statistics and data and take you seriously.
Rayshard Brooks was killed after he fell asleep drunk at a Wendy’s drive-in. If this had happened in Canton to a white guy (or Mayberry for that matter...) we wouldn’t be talking about it today.
Others have already expanded on your “fell asleep drunk” comment so I won’t add more, but part of the reason there is a continuing discussion was the fact that the Wendy’s was burned right afterwards and there were major protests including armed people shooting at others. That kept the news cycle going for weeks. I haven’t heard the name Rayshard Brooks for a while now, so few if any are still talking about this situation right now.
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If it takes having only cops of the same race responding to these calls, whatever it takes. Black people should not be being killed and arrested at 3x, 7x (respectively) the rate that white people are in 2020. We need to solve this problem *now* and stop pretending “this isn’t about race” when it’s 100% exactly about race. So much hypocrisy here it makes me puke.
Sure, there are issues. And racism at both a systemic and individual level.
But also note that the APD is majority black which mirrors Atlanta’s demographics pretty well. You’re not talking about a force that is 90% white going around solely targeting black people. I’d be interested in the metrics - do black officers arrest black people at the same rate as white officers? This should be a dispassionate discussion that looks at data, not general statements.
Atlanta’s violent summer coincides with officer exodus
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Nearly twice as many officers have left the city of Atlanta force this year compared to 2019, internal documents reveal. Many, like Gaither, said they felt underappreciated both by their bosses and city leadership.
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At the same time, the city’s murder rate is up 40% this year from the same point in 2019. Shootings have risen 29%; aggravated assaults, 8%, APD records show.
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According to APD, there are currently 1,623 officers on the streets (with 110 recruits in training), a total nearly as low as any seen in the past two decades. For longer than that, city leaders have aspired to reach 2,000 officers on the force, operating under the theory that more cops on patrol equals less crime.
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“The general climate in the Atlanta Police Department right now is one of uncertainty about the rules of engagement,” said Dean Dabney, chair of Georgia State University’s Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology. “First you had the two college kids that got tased. The officers were fired and charged with aggravated assault, at which time the DA’s office stipulated that a Taser is a deadly weapon. Then you flash forward to the (Rayshard) Brooks shooting, and you have an instance where the DA’s office says a Taser is not a deadly weapon.”
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