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One of the things I hear a lot of companies complain about is the transportation in Atlanta. As someone who used to live the burbs, I found it irritating that there weren't quicker routes to go west to east and vice versa. Like I had to go all the way south, and then have to go all the way back north again lol. Nothing stays cheap forever, and I saw the racist/classist attitudes of fellow students when I was in high school. Poor people/working class need adequate bus service if they are to get to work whether that be within the county they live/commuting to Atlanta.
Another problem I kept seeing is the fact that they had so many cars on so few roads. Like there weren't enough main roads/back roads, and so you'd end up with all these cars getting backed up on long stretches of the same road. It's hard to explain.
Atlanta and the metro's biggest problem is the lack of innovative transportation options. You have a NIMBY kind of attitude...or even if it's not something that directly affects them, a total selfish attitude that puts themselves first above everyone else. People must be willing to put innovation/convenience ahead of things like their racism. Things seemed to take forever to change in Atlanta, and this I couldn't put up with anymore.
Sounds like you lived around Atlanta at one time, but no longer do. Where did you end up moving to?
A lot to discuss in what's bold. I find it interesting that you see it as selfish for some people to not want the expansion of Marta in their areas.
Do you also see it selfish for the people who do want it to come to their area? Let's take the Sandy Springs Marta station. Do 50% of it's residents use it? Nope. So is it selfish to want something like Marta extension, when less than half of the residents will use it? Alpharetta? No chance 50% would use it.
Sounds like you lived around Atlanta at one time, but no longer do. Where did you end up moving to?
A lot to discuss in what's bold. I find it interesting that you see it as selfish for some people to not want the expansion of Marta in their areas.
Do you also see it selfish for the people who do want it to come to their area? Let's take the Sandy Springs Marta station. Do 50% of it's residents use it? Nope. So is it selfish to want something like Marta extension, when less than half of the residents will use it? Alpharetta? No chance 50% would use it.
And the part about the racism
Who cares if 50% of Sandy Springs residents use it, thousands do daily that work there. In fact, the CID's and the corporate community very strongly support it. Why do you think State Farm chose that particular spot and spent their own money to have direct platform access to the Dunwoody Station? The same thing would happen in Alpharetta, thousands daily would reverse commute.
Let's take the Sandy Springs Marta station. Do 50% of it's residents use it? Nope.
Any given station is only as useful as the whole system/network is useful. If Sandy Springs and Dunwoody were the only 2 MARTA stations, then nobody would ride. But since it does at least go to Midtown/Downtown/airport, etc, so, as a result, some people do use it ride it. (A lot of people actually, as I remember seeing that parking deck always full.) And a few in-town people ride it opposite direction to jobs around that station in Sandy Springs.
Now if you make the overall system much better and go to 3x more destinations, then lots more people would use the Sandy Springs station, again both as the start or end point of their trip. Especially as, in turn, more dense development and high rises get built around those Perimeter Center stations, as that area densifies and becomes more urban every year.
Same thing for a potential Alpharetta station, on a further north extension of that line into North Fulton. Including at least some people who would be riding between Alpharetta and Sandy Springs. If you work at somewhere within walking distance of the station, and you commute at morning rush hour on 400 (nightmare parking lot), some people would most definitely park at a North Fulton park&ride station, and ride to their job in Buckhead or Midtown or Perimeter or whatever down the Red line.
People who lack vision don't seem to understand this about transit. It's not about this station or that station, or this hypothetical station. It's the connection between them, and the overall network of connectivity. And it's not about replacing driving, it's just giving more options that move lots more people more efficiently.
This type of "for some reason I can only see 6 inches in front of my face" type thinking (which is very prevalent) always frustrated me about Atlanta, and I have no regrets getting out of there.
And NIMBYism also never made sense to me. The Alpharetta station(s) wouldn't be in your subdivision or anywhere near. They would be along already built up commercial and road corridors, with office and retail.
One of the things I hear a lot of companies complain about is the transportation in Atlanta. As someone who used to live the burbs, I found it irritating that there weren't quicker routes to go west to east and vice versa. Like I had to go all the way south, and then have to go all the way back north again lol. Nothing stays cheap forever, and I saw the racist/classist attitudes of fellow students when I was in high school. Poor people/working class need adequate bus service if they are to get to work whether that be within the county they live/commuting to Atlanta.
Another problem I kept seeing is the fact that they had so many cars on so few roads. Like there weren't enough main roads/back roads, and so you'd end up with all these cars getting backed up on long stretches of the same road. It's hard to explain.
Atlanta and the metro's biggest problem is the lack of innovative transportation options. You have a NIMBY kind of attitude...or even if it's not something that directly affects them, a total selfish attitude that puts themselves first above everyone else. People must be willing to put innovation/convenience ahead of things like their racism. Things seemed to take forever to change in Atlanta, and this I couldn't put up with anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta-Native
Sounds like you lived around Atlanta at one time, but no longer do. Where did you end up moving to?
A lot to discuss in what's bold. I find it interesting that you see it as selfish for some people to not want the expansion of Marta in their areas.
Do you also see it selfish for the people who do want it to come to their area? Let's take the Sandy Springs Marta station. Do 50% of it's residents use it? Nope. So is it selfish to want something like Marta extension, when less than half of the residents will use it? Alpharetta? No chance 50% would use it.
And the part about the racism
It does not appear that DreamerD was specifically necessarily just talking about MARTA expansion to outside areas as much as he also seemed to be talking even more so about the Atlanta region’s very notably limited arterial road network, including the lack of the type of outer perimeter/outer loop/outer bypass type of superhighways that exist outside of other major North American cities like Houston (TX-8 Sam Houston Tollway, TX-6 and TX-99 Grand Parkway), Dallas (President George Bush Turnpike and TX-121 Sam Rayburn Tollway), Chicago (I-355 Veterans Memorial Tollway), Toronto (Express Toll Route 407), Washington D.C. (MD-200 Intercounty Connector) and Miami (Ronald Reagan Turnpike/Homestead Extension of the Florida’s Turnpike).
Atlanta seemingly could really use a second Perimeter as a way of attempting to relieve traffic from the I-285 Perimeter, but the unique politics of the Atlanta region (where many OTP suburban and exurban emotionally directly identify with the scenic forested foothills and ranges of the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian mountain region just north of the city) just simply are not going to permit or allow the construction of a new superhighway outer perimeter loop at this time or at anytime in the foreseeable future.
As for MARTA, with Alpharetta emerging as a major hub of the tech industry for the Southeastern U.S. in recent years, one very likely can make a strong argument for the extension of the MARTA Red Line to Alpharetta so as to give that increasingly economically important area direct rail access to the world’s busiest airport at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.
But rail extensions do cost lots of money and our U.S. system of funding transit with revenues from primarily just sales taxes and federal grants (as opposed to large-scale transit-oriented real estate development supported public-private partnerships) often may not make rail transit expansion the most viable financially.
Though, there does appear to be serious plans to implement a future Bus Rapid Transit link between the emerging suburban North Atlanta Southeastern U.S. tech hub that is Alpharetta and the MARTA North Springs Station as part of the state’s future plans to add express tolled express lanes to Georgia 400 between I-285 and McFarland Parkway.
The Washington Post's story with maps underscores that the Atlanta region needs more mobility and roads are the only feasible means to sustain the ongoing growth.
Mass transit is welcome too, but it's clear that the growth in the bigger region cannot be accommodated alone by mass transit, not to mention the trillion dollar cost and 75 years it would take to build.
The purple on the map shows the unbelievable amount of growth in the region over the last 20 years.
I lived in Atlanta briefly in the late '90s. Even then it was already too sprawling for my taste. Just getting together for a quick coffee with someone could take a long time in the car. More roads and more sprawl certainly wouldn't appeal to me. I'd prefer to have walkable districts where you could easily get to work and meet people, without having to spend a long time in the car. No Atlanta for me (or Houston or Dallas) due to too much sprawl.
While I don't live in ATL anymore, I did my time in traffic, and I think these are some of most needed transportation items:
Roads:
-A northern arc bypass freeway connecting 75 to 85, somewhere north of the suburbs. Not for local use, and with minimal exits (like just at 400 and 575 and 985 and not much else). Ideally you'd have a whole outer bypass loop miles outside of 285, but the top end is the most crucial. This would take a lot of the trucks and out of state traffic off of 285, freeing that up for more share of local capacity.
-More road connections in the suburbs, more back exits, more options and alternatives. There's so many examples. Just more connections in general. New roads, extensions, realignment, improvements, new exits, bridges, etc.
-Similar at a smaller scale, in the core of the City of Atlanta and other urbanized and denser areas, there needs to be more and better street grid. More connections and overall logic. Less of the streets that dead end, forcing you to get on a different road to go north for 200 ft, just to get on another street in order to continue east.
-Tolls. Lots of congestion or time variable tolls on all the freeways. Encourage more buses and transit that way, and less single occupant driving.
-Larger sidewalks and better pedestrian experience. Not just in the city, but in the suburbs too. Encourage more walking.
Transit:
-At least double the MARTA heavy rail system. At least. It should go to Alpharetta, Six Flags, Stonecrest, south of the airport, and ideally through the main northwest and northeast population/commercial corridors in Cobb and Gwinnett.
-Light rail to Emory, loop all around the Beltline, streetcar on Peachtree St, etc. Connecting all these areas directly to the heavy rail backbone.
-Regional commuter rail, connecting (re-connecting) all the historic railroad downtowns, where there is some actual density.
-High speed rail from downtown ATL, with lines to Chicago, New York, Houston, and Miami. With minimal stops, just the big towns like Nashville, Charlotte, Indianapolis, Louisville. ATL could be the southeast regional bullet train hub, and airport.
-Re-think buses. Just in general, start over from scratch with buses. Fewer but better stops, straightened routes staying on main corridors, higher bus frequency and other speed improvements, and a lot more riders.
Charlotte recently forbade any more cul-de-sacs from being built and started an initiative to connect some dead-end stubs to nearby streets to increase coonectivity.
In town Atlanta won't ever see new thoroughfares that move a lot of cars because what's in vogue is the opposite of that...road diets, bike lanes, and traffic calming as pedestrians and bikes take top priority.
Grids of streets won't ever be created en masse and that arrangement does help open things up, but the same thing can be achieved with our curved, meandering roads with some study and spot improvements at certain congested areas.
I believe that Howell Mill, Chattahoochee Ave, Bellemeade area could benefit by making some of them one way and pair with adjacent, parallel streets sorta like how Piedmont, Juniper, West Peachtree and Spring allow passage through Midtown.
Howell Mill is awful now and what does QT do but go and build a huge store smack dab in the middle of the worst intersection in town. They should have to pay for the impacts they have on neighborhoods and so should Chick fil A because they have major impacts on traffic at most locations.
I believe much of the metro's traffic problems stem from the winding roads that briefly converge or piggy back on another road before branching off again. there are so many and this effects traffic on several roads not just one because of this phenomena. These spots could be replaced or something.
Unfortunately there is no past precedent at GDOT for studying problem spots and making improvements.
Any given station is only as useful as the whole system/network is useful. If Sandy Springs and Dunwoody were the only 2 MARTA stations, then nobody would ride. But since it does at least go to Midtown/Downtown/airport, etc, so, as a result, some people do use it ride it. (A lot of people actually, as I remember seeing that parking deck always full.) And a few in-town people ride it opposite direction to jobs around that station in Sandy Springs.
Now if you make the overall system much better and go to 3x more destinations, then lots more people would use the Sandy Springs station, again both as the start or end point of their trip. Especially as, in turn, more dense development and high rises get built around those Perimeter Center stations, as that area densifies and becomes more urban every year.
Same thing for a potential Alpharetta station, on a further north extension of that line into North Fulton. Including at least some people who would be riding between Alpharetta and Sandy Springs. If you work at somewhere within walking distance of the station, and you commute at morning rush hour on 400 (nightmare parking lot), some people would most definitely park at a North Fulton park&ride station, and ride to their job in Buckhead or Midtown or Perimeter or whatever down the Red line.
People who lack vision don't seem to understand this about transit. It's not about this station or that station, or this hypothetical station. It's the connection between them, and the overall network of connectivity. And it's not about replacing driving, it's just giving more options that move lots more people more efficiently.
This type of "for some reason I can only see 6 inches in front of my face" type thinking (which is very prevalent) always frustrated me about Atlanta, and I have no regrets getting out of there.
And NIMBYism also never made sense to me. The Alpharetta station(s) wouldn't be in your subdivision or anywhere near. They would be along already built up commercial and road corridors, with office and retail.
You could have a extensive MARTA rail system with velvet seat cushions.
People look at mass transit as a step down regarding methods of getting around town. It's something that the poor people take because they can't afford a car.
People perceive driving in their own car as a more luxurious treat if they can afford it, regardless of the stress and hours wasted in gridlock.
The recent roaring economy period proved this as ridership fell in every metro around the country. In a recession, that's when ridership increases..
For Atlantans, only when driving across town takes hours and it too awful to withstand will they opt for MARTA. That has happened to an extent.
But for some the less mild mannered contingent that uses MARTA daily is an uncomfortable tradeoff to fully embracing MARTA.
I don't think that and I wish it would be adopted by the masses, even with what we have which I think connects a lot of huge walkable commercial districts.
MARTA begins taking delivery of all new rail cars and trainset in 1-2 years so that will be an enticement to use it more too.
The Johnson Ferry/Abernathy intersection you pointed out used to have Johnson Ferry go straight requiring the Abernathy-bound traffic (towards GA 400) to jam up a single left-turn lane. This was fixed about a decade ago and was a significant improvement.
The problem isn't that the ideas for rail are too big, frankly, they are too small. Think about all of the money spent on road and freeway infrastructure around the metro, like the I-75 hot lanes, the 285-400 interchange, and the amount of money we invest into the airport... If we had actually had an open mind towards putting this kind of money in rail, we could invest in something special. We could have an amazing heavy or light rail system that people would actually want to ride, for fun. Not just as a utilitarian mode of transportation.
North of 400, you could have a quiet light rail train (with wide, soft seats) that hovers just below the tree canopy, snaking along the same path as the long abandoned rail line that never quite made it into Roswell. All of the sudden, the trees disappear, and you're over the Chattahoochee river. You can see a flock of geese, the canoers, people fishing, and soon it all disappears as you head into a narrow, granite tunnel going underneath Roswell. A couple of stories below the old town, the train station is built in the style of the Roswell mill. It is small, but ornate, with walls lined of stone. The stairs open up onto the Roswell Square, with a victorian looking pair of globe lanterns lighting either side.
Totally agree! Hopefully our next Governor will be on board, but I have no idea where SC stands on this. NC can be counted on.
The mentality of North Carolineans including State officials is about as opposite from the Georgian mentality as you can get.
NC folks trust their govt. more and the opposite is true of Georgia.
NC is a prolific road builder and planner for the future. GA is loathe to build any new roads and doesn’t have the next 50 years laid out on paper like NC does.
NC already operates a successful railroad within the state and all i can envision the states working together on is higher speed rail from Atlanta to NC Piedmont service that had 4 daily round trips between Charlotte and Raleigh (3 now during COVid).
Metro Atlanta has already taken over North Georgia. 7 million live across 35 counties.
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